Irvine's negativity will relegate us

[i used to be sc_owl]

Then you've either not read many threads or only seeing what you wanna see

Of course if we go down it will be multifactorial - but the thing with Mr Irvine is that his role is being brought into sharp focus - Brian Laws has gone and we can blame him and mock him all we like but that won't change how we progress from here.

People are asking if the current manager is the correct man for the job if he fails in the stated aim of keeping the club up - because people can stamp their feet and spit the dummy all they like but he had enough time to keep us up.

As of today all he has done is kept pace with the other clubs in the relegation zone

We should have done much better than simply keeping pace with some of those teams. It all looked quite promising at the start of AI's reign, but I'm starting to have my doubts...

Question is - if we go down who could get us back in the Championship? Because I don't believe AI's style could.

[DJMortimer]

Bang on

Set off 'not to lose' in this one - and Palace will know that a win sends us down if they can beat WBA on the Monday

And that's a WBA who have no motive whatsoever to bust their balls.

[Guest utOwlz]

And that's a WBA who have no motive whatsoever to bust their balls.

Its worrying isnt it :Dark Sad:

[sheffield_dave]

Grow up muppet

There goes that dummy again.

Do you expect me to take your points seriously when you keep making comments like that? Are you going to debate this issue in a reasonable way or are you going to keep coming across like a petulent 5-year-old? I'd rather be told now if that's what you're going to do so that I won't have to keep wasting my time with you.

Regarding your last post, I even mentioned in my own post above that Laws has to take some blame for this season. Alot of the blame, infact. As do the players. The point is is that so does Irvine. With 20+ games under his belt as manager of this football team, Irvine has had almost half a season to make a difference. During that time, the team has shown almost no improvement. In terms of making substitutions and changes during a game to affect a positive outcome, i'd actually argue that we've come backwards since sacking Laws.

It's about accountability. People will blame Laws, and rightly so. People will blame the players, and rightly so. Will people blame Irvine? Should they blame Irvine? Should Irvine get away with the team failing to show improvement in 5 months of his reign as manager? Should he be aloud to hide behind a "he needs his own players" argument, given that he accepted the job back in January knowing what the situation was going to be?

Regarding Strafford, no, I do not blame him for failing to attract investment. That's a seperate issue and one that warrants barely any comparison with this one. However, I would question appointing Irvine on a 3 and a half year contract. Have the club learnt nothing from recent compensation pay-offs with Sturrock and Laws?

[scram]

And that's a WBA who have no motive whatsoever to bust their balls.

TBF i'd much prefer to be playing a Cardiff side who have every reason to treat us with kid gloves - and that's probably a virtual reserve Cardiff side too.

We can't claim they have it easier than us - and we have to play them at our ground and not theirs

The ball is firmly in our court - and that's discounting Watford who are in horrific form and luck at the moment

[BIG D]

I don't get that way of thinking tbh

12 months ago those same players finished about 15 points above relegation

How was it inevitable they would get relegated?

Not 'inevitable' but caused by the cr@p left by Laws.

As explained last night AI's return has been on par with the totals from the last 2 years despite the poo situation he inherited.

[Guest utOwlz]

There goes that dummy again.

Do you expect me to take your points seriously when you keep making comments like that?

It was that first comment about spitting the dummy out in your previous post that provoked me saying "grow up muppet", and my points were valid, im not trying to argue i just am trying to stick up for our current manager as i believe winning 11 games from 23 was always going to be abit too hard with our gutless players, you can call for his head if you like, but i will judge him next season whatever division we are in. we are not down yet either by the way so lets get behind the players and manager for now

[scram]

Not 'inevitable' but caused by the cr@p left by Laws.

As explained last night AI's return has been on par with the totals from the last 2 years despite the poo situation he inherited.

The same crap that has kept the club up for 2 seasons yeah?

And lets not get into the stupid semantics of points per game because stats are the most despicable liars when used preferentially - the club have kept pace with the clubs around us since Laws left

We haven't outperformed them - we have kept pace - hence being in an almost identical position now as we were when Laws was punted

[sheffield_dave]

you can call for his head if you like,

Ah, now that's interesting, given that I've not actually done that once..

Irvine will be Sheffield Wednesday manager next season regardless. There's nothing I can do about that even if I was "calling for his head". To that end, and given the amount of players out of contract here this summer, we have no choice but to see how he gets on with a new group of players next season either way.

However, I will continue to maintain that should this team get relegated, then he should not and inevitably will not be immune from criticism. The farcical substiution yesterday (of which there was only one, which is an issue in itself) is merely the tipping point for many people of what has been a largely indifferent period under Irvine so far.

[BIG D]

We were on a run of 3 points from the previous 11 games and an abysmal FA Cup defeat to Palace.

Irvine took over a squad that was totally fooked.

So no Irvine is not blameless but I don't see how he can be held accountable for our relegation (if we do go down that is)

[DJMortimer]

The same crap that has kept the club up for 2 seasons yeah?

And lets not get into the stupid semantics of points per game because stats are the most despicable liars when used preferentially - the club have kept pace with the clubs around us since Laws left

We haven't outperformed them - we have kept pace - hence being in an almost identical position now as we were when Laws was punted

Although I have quoted my fair share of them in recent weeks (sometimes to illustrate how they can be abused) you are absolutely right that statistics do not easily lend themselves to analysing football. What good is it to have a 65:35 edge in time of possession, 14-3 lead in corners and 12-5 'win' in goal attempts if you end up losing the game 0-1? And we've all seen LOADS of games that take that kind of pattern.

That said, I'm still intrigued by our very consistent results in the last three years and keep finding that ten game period or so that started at the end of last October sticking out more and more as a very obvious anomaly in our form (and I promise not to go on and on about it for the rest of the week ).

[Guest utOwlz]

We were on a run of 3 points from the previous 11 games and an abysmal FA Cup defeat to Palace.

Irvine took over a squad that was totally fooked.

So no Irvine is not blameless but I don't see how he can be held accountable for our relegation (if we do go down that is)

Spot on

[ReadingOwl]

Spot on

Now won one in last ten?

Is that spot on too?

[scram]

Repeats parrott-like

A squad that kept this club in the division for 2 years and finished 15 points above relegation a year ago

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

I had the face on during and after the game, getting frustrated at the negativity shown by AI. Then it occured to me...

Had we gone for a winner against The Blades and ended up losing the game, just a point for Palace against WBA would have relegated us (on goal difference even if we beat Palace). By accepting a reasonable point, Palace have to beat WBA to put themselves safe before coming to Hillsborough. I think AI has taken a calculated risk that we won't get anything at Cardiff and Palace will get a point maximum against WBA, meaning Wednesday beating Palace on the final day sees safety.

So, whilst I was fuming yesterday with my heart ruling my head, I can understand AI's decision now I've chilled out.

[Guest utOwlz]

Now won one in last ten?

Is that spot on too?

No

[DJMortimer]

No

Take a closer look.

[Guest utOwlz]

Take a closer look.

What do you mean?

[BIG D]

Repeats parrott-like

A squad that kept this club in the division for 2 years and finished 15 points above relegation a year ago

And we would be again if Irvine had been here all season

[Guest utOwlz]

And we would be again if Irvine had been here all season

Spot on again