Investment Perspective

[southportdc]

hang about... you now get called a pig/FUDder if you express doubt that this deal will go through? but it's far from certain that it will- even C9S have said it's not a done deal yet, are they FUDders?

[longreach]

hang about... you now get called a pig/FUDder if you express doubt that this deal will go through? but it's far from certain that it will- even C9S have said it's not a done deal yet, are they FUDders?

Of the worst kind!

[TrickyTrev]

The publisher missed a couple of key points:

Evaluating Opportunities

Financial analysis of football clubs is not terribly onerous and focuses on a number potential value drivers:

1. The grounds must be owned by the club;

2. Size of grounds must be in upper quartile of its respective league;

3. Fan support (as defined by average attendance) in top quartile of its respective league;

4. The club must maintain a well-respected academy;

5. Positive EBITDA (exc. Player transfers);

6. Pro-Forma debt less than £10 million post acquisition;

7. Must be in Championship or Premiership; and

8. Wages/Turnover must be maintained at 60% or less and be competitive in its respective league.

9. A hotel

10. Cladding

Class!!!

Also on a more serious note, after looking at the various criteria that potential investors tend to look for, surely the fact that Hillsborough is on the list of potential World Cup stadiums should England's 2018 bid be succesful would be seen as another positive in our favour.

[darra]

But thats listed as point seven of eight conditions.

Are you suggesting then that investment will not be concluded until safety is assured, bearing in mind that could be as late as May?

Pfft.

'fraid so

[HarrowbyOwl]

'fraid so

You might be right. Mr Kosich, this time with partner Russell Black, has become a prolific blogger:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=7545

Black Monday - The Day The English Football Bubble Finally Burst

"In conclusion, I believe that the closing of the transfer window this past Monday has now swung the door open for a number of insolvencies this coming spring. Additionally, we will also see a number of restructurings, club sales and new equity injections into clubs in order to reduce debt and right-size their capital structures later in the spring."

Russell Black's involvement is intersting. Though not mentioned on the C9S web site as one of the team he's a managing director at Dornoch Capital Advisors. He previously founded the Nightfreight group. Peter Johnson the former chairman of Everton and now at Tranmere used to be Chairman of the Nightfreight group and Russel Black was Deputy Chairman.

Edited February 5, 2010 by HarrowbyOwl

[WC1Owl]

In conclusion, I believe that the closing of the transfer window this past Monday has now swung the door open for a number of insolvencies this coming spring. Additionally, we will also see a number of restructurings, club sales and new equity injections into clubs in order to reduce debt and right-size their capital structures later in the spring.

[Guest mrbluesky]

hang about... you now get called a pig/FUDder if you express doubt that this deal will go through? but it's far from certain that it will- even C9S have said it's not a done deal yet, are they FUDders?

well said that man

[capetownowl]

I wouldn't say it was fud I'd say it was understandable scepticism

Yes, but that's because you have objectivity and don't follow the path of blind faith - the one that suggests just because something is a thousand times better than it was then nothing should be criticised or questioned.

I can't see a deal being finalised then, thats what i meant, if we do reach a deal it would be great and i would eat my words of sceptism openly

Why bother posting , there is beleif in the camp at the moment and this place is starting to rock, or have you got an agenda ?

hang about... you now get called a pig/FUDder if you express doubt that this deal will go through? but it's far from certain that it will- even C9S have said it's not a done deal yet, are they FUDders?

Glad to see that debate and the right to an opinion is still being protected on OT.

It was getting to a point whereby anyone with any doubt what so ever were too afraid to voice an opinion.

I accept that there were / are some FUDders but it was becoming a joke.

This was a comment on another board about OT

"No they are a bit more radical whereas your average fans just go and support the team without getting as involved in the politics etc"

I am sure that if an opinion of OT was given now from someone who had only been viewing the site for the past 6 - 10 months would be..

"There just a bunch of Happy Clappers who shout down anyone who questions anything the club do"

[steelowl]

Glad to see that debate and the right to an opinion is still being protected on OT.

It was getting to a point whereby anyone with any doubt what so ever were too afraid to voice an opinion.

I accept that there were / are some FUDders but it was becoming a joke.

This was a comment on another board about OT

"No they are a bit more radical whereas your average fans just go and support the team without getting as involved in the politics etc"

I am sure that if an opinion of OT was given now from someone who had only been viewing the site for the past 6 - 10 months would be..

"There just a bunch of Happy Clappers who shout down anyone who questions anything the club do"

Plenty of people on here will challenge when and if. However we seem to be getting rid of people who wanted to or needed to, almost as if they were set up to do it

btw there's another board?

[dumboldowl]

Who is making false promises? I have not seen any from our present chairman in fact everthing he has said he is doing he has done so far.

The presentation given by the club to the FA last September, stated that £20m investment was "imminent", and that ground improvements at the Leppings Lane end would start in November.

It was also stated that these steps were not dependant upon Hillsborough being selected as a potential World Cup ground. The fact that it subsequently was chosen, should have made the promise even more binding.

I wish LS all the very best in his endeavours for the club, but for people to pretend that promises have gone unfulfilled is myopia indeed.

[steelowl]

The presentation given by the club to the FA last September, stated that £20m investment was "imminent", and that ground improvements at the Leppings Lane end would start in November.

It was also stated that these steps were not dependant upon Hillsborough being selected as a potential World Cup ground. The fact that it subsequently was chosen, should have made the promise even more binding.

I wish LS all the very best in his endeavours for the club, but for people to pretend that promises have gone unfulfilled is myopia indeed.

IMO if we were in the league position we were when talks started with this latest group of investors I think the cheque would be safely in the bank.

Much is made of this 'imminent' quote I see it now as presentation semantics. "We're talking to several very interested parties one of whom will almost certainly see, any time soon, the benefit in being associated with a world cup ready stadium whilst benefiting the community at the same time" doesn't quite have the same persuasive edge to it does it?

I've often criticised LS but I can't remember the word promise, I will or definitely being used in any context other than his own commitment to try and get the deal signed off.

[Anthndav]

IMO if we were in the league position we were when talks started with this latest group of investors I think the cheque would be safely in the bank.

Much is made of this 'imminent' quote I see it now as presentation semantics. "We're talking to several very interested parties one of whom will almost certainly see, any time soon, the benefit in being associated with a world cup ready stadium whilst benefiting the community at the same time" doesn't quite have the same persuasive edge to it does it?

I've often criticised LS but I can't remember the word promise, I will or definitely being used in any context other than his own commitment to try and get the deal signed off.

^^^^

Steelowl hits the nail on the head

[dumboldowl]

I've often criticised LS but I can't remember the word promise, I will or definitely being used in any context other than his own commitment to try and get the deal signed off.

LS is the Chairman of this club. The undertakings were given to the FA (and repeated a few days later at a fans forum at Hillsborough in the presence of LS). If you consider them not to be a promise, then you are quite at will to continue in your delusion.

As I said before, I wish LS all the very, very best in his efforts, but please don't let us be blind to facts.

[Guest Walkley_Owl]

LS is the Chairman of this club. The undertakings were given to the FA (and repeated a few days later at a fans forum at Hillsborough in the presence of LS). If you consider them not to be a promise, then you are quite at will to continue in your delusion.

As I said before, I wish LS all the very, very best in his efforts, but please don't let us be blind to facts.

The work on the Lepp was "scheduled" to begin in November DEPENDING on the outcome of a grant to start the work, this application was denied and as such the work was postponed, hardly a broken promise

[Lees Tom Cat]

Can see no other reason why the deal wasn't concluded can you?

IMO if we were in the league position we were when talks started with this latest group of investors I think the cheque would be safely in the bank.

Without sounding pessimistic,I keep reading these kind of posts but just cannot recall any facts to back up that anyone is actually going to invest anything.

Obviously we will have to wait and see exactly what certain parties are going to be doing whether it be actually investing (As not yet indicated)..

Or restructuring or just acting as a sales rep..But i just cannot recall any stated intent to invest so i do not know why people are presuming as much.

Like the first quoted post...I simply wonder what deal?..And the second post what latest group of investors what is the cheque for?

Genuine questions..

[Guest Ripley Owl]

The work on the Lepp was "scheduled" to begin in November DEPENDING on the outcome of a grant to start the work, this application was denied and as such the work was postponed, hardly a broken promise

Was the grant and timing of the scheduled work delayed or turned down flat Walkley ?

[Guest Walkley_Owl]

the grant was turned down FLAT IIRC

[steelowl]

Without sounding pessimistic,I keep reading these kind of posts but just cannot recall any facts to back up that anyone is actually going to invest anything.

tbf as in any business jaw jaw can come to nothing but this will only be proved true when the deal is signed

Obviously we will have to wait and see exactly what certain parties are going to be doing whether it be actually investing (As not yet indicated)..

Or restructuring or just acting as a sales rep..But i just cannot recall any stated intent to invest so i do not know why people are presuming as much.

Are you talking about IC or the C9S? I suspect only a few people at the club know these details. I am more than interested to know how this will be structured if it comes off too mate

Like the first quoted post...I simply wonder what deal?..And the second post what latest group of investors what is the cheque for?

not sure I understand that bold bit mate.

When I said latest I meant the declared C9S group, in the context that this process has previously had Bates,Yeung, Gregg, Sheard, and the unnamed group that fell away before March - and these are only the ones we know about.

Genuine questions..

[dumboldowl]

The work on the Lepp was "scheduled" to begin in November DEPENDING on the outcome of a grant to start the work, this application was denied and as such the work was postponed, hardly a broken promise

Was this made clear to the FA in the presentation ? Or, for that matter, to the fans at the forum ?

[Guest Walkley_Owl]

Was this made clear to the FA in the presentation ? Or, for that matter, to the fans at the forum ?

Why would it matter to the FA, the ground doesn't have to be ready next year, it has to be fit for 2018 not 2011, jesus wept