Moore’s Future if Promotion isn’t reached

[parajack]

7 hours ago, George said:

Moore has done a cracking job in difficult circumstances. Expectations at the start of the season were unrealistic and then the injurries that left is with no fit defenders were crippling. The team is now playing some great football. If we don't go up but keep this team together and make the right additions and we can win the league at a cnter next season. Instand gratification is for muck hub. It doesn't work very often in football and changing manager yet again will make it far less likely we go up next year.

I doubt DM will be able to keep the team together....loans ending,contracts endng,players facing another Year(at least) in L1 & Championship Clubs sniffing around our best Players for a bargain...This Year will be our best chance of promotion by a Country mile

[parajack]

9 hours ago, markg said:

Why does Moore have to win every game to avoid criticism? 

Because his tactics ,playing it out,subs and game management & the inability of our team to defend a set piece,have seen us draw 13 matchs,lose too many points in a Year when places in the play offs are highly competative.

Sunderland & WW on a good run putting pressure on us,meaning we have to win to STAND STILL (stay in 5th)

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, parajack said:

Because his tactics ,playing it out,subs and game management & the inability of our team to defend a set piece,have seen us draw 13 matchs,lose too many points in a Year when places in the play offs are highly competative. 

But we're still heading for promotion

[parajack]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

But we're still heading for promotion

 

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

But we're still heading for promotion

Hope so mate,but his Q was 'why does DM have to win every match'?....ergo my answer,do you disagree ?

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, parajack said:

 

Hope so mate,but his Q was 'why does DM have to win every match'?....ergo my answer,do you disagree ?

 

 

I can see why you gave the reasons you did

Ultimately for me though there's not a single manager ever existed who should have to win every match in order to win over fans who can't appreciate the work he's doing, the success he's bringing, the turnaround of the club, or the way he's developing our players

I find it petty that some fans put their own ego before the truth, facts, stats and what everyone can see happening

[Owl 44]

I'd keep him. He's assembled a good squad of players who seem to love him. I wonder how many of those came because it was Moore in charge. I like a lot of what the players say about him (including Dean this week).

 

Yes, there are things that need to improve  but I see most fans saying the same about their managers. He appears to be doing a lot behind the scenes to rebuild the club, including the academy and he's the only manager in recent years who has managed to overcome the not winning from behind mentality. He just needs to overcome the conceding from set pieces mentality now.

 

Just a thought to those who want him out: We get another manager (Who?) and they also fail to get us up next season. Do we then sack them? How many times can we do this whilst trying to build long term plan for the club? 

 

 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

3 hours ago, duncanidaho said:

Proof?

West Brom....

[Elvin Parsnip]

I think he’s made some good signings in the whole a bit like Chris Turner did but as then I think another good manager would take us up like Sturrock did

[Bluesteel.]

The best comparison for us is Ipswich given the investment and player turn over last summer. They had a great team assembled but didn’t get it going on the pitch. 
 

We had a good start despite some teething issues with a new team. The injuries in autumn really cost us a few points and whilst I think DM could do better in the areas we all talk about another manager would not guarantee success. The mood seems good and as long as that continues then let’s just give him the time he has always needed since boarding the titanic 

[Bluesteel.]

14 minutes ago, Elvin Parsnip said:

I think he’s made some good signings in the whole a bit like Chris Turner did but as then I think another good manager would take us up like Sturrock did

Chris Turner nearly had us relegated and Sturrock made the playoffs. Which is what DM may well do.

[parajack]

3 hours ago, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said:

Perhaps everybody else in top 8...

We have 50% freebies and  loans,not our own players castoffs and fringe players..We haven't even got decent forwards.

Only Windass would get in any other team if fit..

Enlighten me tho if you think differently as this is just my opinion.Stick with DM and go again,let him have some money to spend.

I'm not knocking our first 11 mind.UTO.

 

EH? Ridiculous we started our Season with 7 players who were first team regulars in the Championship the previous season,a Division we were only relegated from due to an EFL sanction despite a multitude of issues....We ,brought in a PL GK on loan,Gregory Championship player,Harley Dean,Championship player,Jordon Storey Championship player from Preston...We have BB Championship midfielder and prob best in L1,Patterson,Windass,Berahino....

List is endless but you say top 8 L1 teams all have better than us?   YES i know some have been injured,all sides have injuries and all sides have to bring in loan signings in this League

[Bluesteel.]

10 minutes ago, parajack said:

EH? Ridiculous we started our Season with 7 players who were first team regulars in the Championship the previous season,a Division we were only relegated from due to an EFL sanction despite a multitude of issues....We ,brought in a PL GK on loan,Gregory Championship player,Harley Dean,Championship player,Jordon Storey Championship player from Preston...We have BB Championship midfielder and prob best in L1,Patterson,Windass,Berahino....

List is endless but you say top 8 L1 teams all have better than us?   YES i know some have been injured,all sides have injuries and all sides have to bring in loan signings in this League

If we had Storey, Dean, Luongo, Windass all season I don’t think this thread even exists 

[parajack]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

I can see why you gave the reasons you did

Ultimately for me though there's not a single manager ever existed who should have to win every match in order to win over fans who can't appreciate the work he's doing, the success he's bringing, the turnaround of the club, or the way he's developing our players

I find it petty that some fans put their own ego before the truth, facts, stats and what everyone can see happening

Who is doing that?.....I have seen critique of all our managers on Owlstalk,some not valid in my view,but all peoples opinions.....

Two schools of thought currently

(1) DM doing a great job in difficult circumstances

(2) DM underachieving with the squad he has got(variety of reasons)

Both views are perfectly legitimate.....

 

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, parajack said:

Who is doing that?.....I have seen critique of all our managers on Owlstalk,some not valid in my view,but all peoples opinions.....

Two schools of thought currently

(1) DM doing a great job in difficult circumstances

(2) DM underachieving with the squad he has got(variety of reasons)

Both views are perfectly legitimate.....

 

 

 

We're heading for promotion though

surely best to judge his performance on whether or not we go up

[vulva]

2 hours ago, Elvin Parsnip said:

I think he’s made some good signings in the whole a bit like Chris Turner did but as then I think another good manager would take us up like Sturrock did

Agree with that. Recruitment has been very good. But a better manager would have had us walk this league. Moore is a really good bloke, and a decent manager but we’ve missed that bit extra that the better managers bring to the table. 

[parajack]

6 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

We're heading for promotion though

surely best to judge his performance on whether or not we go up

We are 5th spot in play off place,on the same points as Sunderland & WW......ahead on GD......thats why going back to my earlier point i said thats why we are having to look at keeping winning to stand still(WW won 3 out 5,Sunderland 4 out of 5) We have drawn 3 out of 5...To keep our destiny in our own hands we need to keep winning....

Q Do you think leaving Berahino & Patterson on the bench,and picking NML as a strike partner to Gregory is the right thing to facilitate that? & is it the right time to experiment with that?

ALL fans/supporters want a return to the Championship..

 

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, parajack said:

 

ALL fans/supporters want a return to the Championship..

 

 

This is true
And we're on course for it

And whilst Darren Moore is trying to get us there we have fans on the sidelines pointing at him and shouting to everyone 'look everyone - he's not good enough. he isn't gonna do it. he's making mistakes. he's rubbish' etc etc

 

Doesn't sit right with me that

In terms of judging whether or not Moore has done this season right - the best time (in my humble opinion) to judge is once the promotion has been decided one way or another

If he fails to get promoted then fair enough lets have a post mortem and decide if we move forward with him or not

But let's not have a post mortem as we're trying to get promoted ffs

[parajack]

12 hours ago, duncanidaho said:

I agree that racism is a strong term and probably not justified in the posts in this thread.

However there does appear to be an unconscious bias within football.  I'm not going to post figures, have a look for your own proof.  Have a look at how many BAME players there are in the football divisions, compare that to the percentage of BAME in England and then look at the percentage of BAME managers in football.

I am by no means saying forum members are guilty of this, or the chairman, I am just pointing out some stats that could support an accusation of unconscious bias in football.

I look at this way,people critique our manager on footballing matters.....he happens to be 'black' not a PC term apparently any more....the word 'Racism; gets throw in(unjustifiably in my view) and than if you allow it,the thread derails and reverts to discussing racism,rather than the topic/critique/praise of DM...

Is there racism within football? probably as it represents a wider Society,

Q: How many very rich multi millionairre footballers of colour in football?

How many England and other Internationals people of colour? No there arnt many Managers,but there arnt any Trans or Female managers that i know of either....Nor openly Gay/Bi that i know of.....

If there were some would be great & some would be ****  'not so great'..just like anyone else.

Time to stop looking for 'ism's'....... 

[duncanidaho]

36 minutes ago, parajack said:

I look at this way,people critique our manager on footballing matters.....he happens to be 'black' not a PC term apparently any more....the word 'Racism; gets throw in(unjustifiably in my view) and than if you allow it,the thread derails and reverts to discussing racism,rather than the topic/critique/praise of DM...

Is there racism within football? probably as it represents a wider Society,

Q: How many very rich multi millionairre footballers of colour in football?

How many England and other Internationals people of colour? No there arnt many Managers,but there arnt any Trans or Female managers that i know of either....Nor openly Gay/Bi that i know of.....

If there were some would be great & some would be ****  'not so great'..just like anyone else.

Time to stop looking for 'ism's'....... 

I feel you have shot down your own argument there,  By saying there aren't many women/bi/gay/trans confirms attitudes in football have a bias, unconscious or not.

I agree threads can easily be de-railed by raising an issue such as this and the use of the word "racism" was probably unjustified, but still raised.

However, there is a possibility some unconscious bias may be present among some people when critiquing, but i think that is a discussion for a separate thread.  

[parajack]

There is racism,sexism,and agism,in wider society....Football is part of said 'society' the debate and context is if people critiqing DM have sub conscious racist intent,rather than looking at his footballing decisions.

Until people bring it up,i dont even think about DM race, AT ALL ....I feel people seem to be looking for something that i personally dont see....

Like i said,we dont see similar comments made re racism where critique of players is apparent....

If you say a player of colour has had a **** game,or is simply not good enough we dont see the 'racist' bias comments,only if its our manager