Dressing room

[Big Jack]

4 hours ago, parajack said:

 

To progress we simply must win our games

No s hit Sherlock

[parajack]

42 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

No s hit Sherlock

Try looking at the context of the post and reading the thread context 'ie being unbeaten' ..b4 you bother to try sarcasm....

I have responded to posts of us being unbeaten by saying its not good enough to progress,and given an example why....

If you disagree try debating and saying why

Edited December 8, 2021 by parajack

[0742]

2 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Just judge each case on its own merits and then there's no need for bias, is there?

 

No, that's not how it works is it? Consistency is required. When key players have been fit, we've struggled. Which fans believe to be due to the poor tactics and team selection. We're grinding out results now, avoiding defeat, but let's not kid ourselves that there haven't been some very worrying line up's and performances this season.

[parajack]

59 minutes ago, DoesJackHunt said:

This round peg in square hole stuff does my head in. He's got players with certain attributes and he's building them into a cohesive unit in the style he wants. Also, he has no fit central defenders so has had to be "creative" in that position, he hasn't had a choice. Despite this we have gone an a very long unbeaten run. 

I'm not against 4 4 2 but it's not what Darren Moore wants to play and I don't think just reverting to that, so that we can play young, developing players in the position they came to us as being labelled as is worth doing. Especially given this long unbeaten run we are on. 

As we get the injured players back we should turn some of these draws into wins. I 've seen nothing to suggest that wont happen over the last 11 games, have you ?

Yes,the pizza cup fiasco & last nights game where we couldn't score and would have gone down 3-0 apart from BPF.

That and our never ending injurys(again) and of course 'Hutch's'  muscle 'strain'.........which muscle though eh?...

Not all DM fault or even his responsibility but early points dropped and continuing misfiring with draws if it doesnt stop,will see us drop away even from the play offs...

Q; Why is automatic promotion a feasible reality for Rotherham & WW & an outright expectation from their respective fan base,but for SWFC being 'in touch' with the play off positions is seen as acceptable?

Cos sorry it isnt,and to not even be in a play off spot & depending on teams losing their games in hand to advance is simply not acceptable

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

40 minutes ago, parajack said:

Yes,the pizza cup fiasco & last nights game where we couldn't score and would have gone down 3-0 apart from BPF.

That and our never ending injurys(again) and of course 'Hutch's'  muscle 'strain'.........which muscle though eh?...

Not all DM fault or even his responsibility but early points dropped and continuing misfiring with draws if it doesnt stop,will see us drop away even from the play offs...

Q; Why is automatic promotion a feasible reality for Rotherham & WW & an outright expectation from their respective fan base,but for SWFC being 'in touch' with the play off positions is seen as acceptable?

Cos sorry it isnt,and to not even be in a play off spot & depending on teams losing their games in hand to advance is simply not acceptable

 

A; This season, I think mainly because of the large turn over in players and the shambolic way we came down. Not playing players , prospects leaving for next to nothing, points deductions etc. 

We were in utter chaos. I along with others, thought there was a significant possibility that we would get wound up. 

To expect us to bounce back instantly from that....... do you think that is realistic? We all hoped for that but realistic, i'm not convinced, regardless of how "massive" we are in comparison to a lot of teams in the league..

Rotherham and WW haven't had the same levels of turmoil last season to bounce back from and the pressure on them to be successful is less because they are much smaller clubs. also, have WW and Rovrum currently got no fit CB's ?

 

We are a massive game for every team in this league, "everyone's cup final." (tongue firmly in cheek) but I'm sure opposition teams want to give a goo account of themselves at Hillsborough and the players want to turn us over more so than Morecombe or Gillingham for example. I know i would if i was a player.

 

I don't care about the Pizza cup, although that performance was unacceptable in any competition. I don't care if Hutch is injured or not and we have had issues with injuries for maybe 10 /15 years. i don't care that we needed a MOM display from BPF. Sometimes you need your keepers to step up, especially away from home and down to 10 men.

 

We are heavily impacted with injuries, especially at CB and we are still unbeaten in 11. 

 

I would like to add that if we don't go up this season i fully expect us to be challenging for automatics next season, but this season for me, we're OK if we stay in touch and sneak into the playoffs at the end of the season and if we don't i will not be losing any sleep. 

 

That's why it's acceptable to me.

[parajack]

5 minutes ago, DoesJackHunt said:

 

A; This season, I think mainly because of the large turn over in players and the shambolic way we came down. Not playing players , prospects leaving for next to nothing, points deductions etc. 

We were in utter chaos. I along with others, thought there was a significant possibility that we would get wound up. 

To expect us to bounce back instantly from that....... do you think that is realistic? We all hoped for that but realistic, i'm not convinced, regardless of how "massive" we are in comparison to a lot of teams in the league..

Rotherham and WW haven't had the same levels of turmoil last season to bounce back from and the pressure on them to be successful is less because they are much smaller clubs. also, have WW and Rovrum currently got no fit CB's ?

 

We are a massive game for every team in this league, "everyone's cup final." (tongue firmly in cheek) but I'm sure opposition teams want to give a goo account of themselves at Hillsborough and the players want to turn us over more so than Morecombe or Gillingham for example. I know i would if i was a player.

 

I don't care about the Pizza cup, although that performance was unacceptable in any competition. I don't care if Hutch is injured or not and we have had issues with injuries for maybe 10 /15 years. i don't care that we needed a MOM display from BPF. Sometimes you need your keepers to step up, especially away from home and down to 10 men.

 

We are heavily impacted with injuries, especially at CB and we are still unbeaten in 11. 

 

I would like to add that if we don't go up this season i fully expect us to be challenging for automatics next season, but this season for me, we're OK if we stay in touch and sneak into the playoffs at the end of the season and if we don't i will not be losing any sleep. 

 

That's why it's acceptable to me.

Everybodys entitled to their opinion,especially if they support it with their own debate.I accept the points you have made,but dont forget the points deduction etc were applied last season,ditto players leaving etc etc.

Shouldnt in my view detract from critique(justified in my view) of the strange choices and line ups we have seen at times this season.

All teams have comings and goings of players,injury's, and at times changes of manager....and there comes a time when you have to say enough of excuses...

Fan base is split on this,so i think lets have a look at our next three results,performances,and where we are in the Division after them.

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 hour ago, 0742 said:

No, that's not how it works is it? Consistency is required. When key players have been fit, we've struggled. Which fans believe to be due to the poor tactics and team selection. We're grinding out results now, avoiding defeat, but let's not kid ourselves that there haven't been some very worrying line up's and performances this season.

 

There have been some decisions which look a bit odd from the outside looking in, yeah.

 

But that doesn't explain some of the comments last night criticising the selection of Paterson at centre back when we simply get no other option, or suggesting bringing Wing on was a an incomprehensible decision.

 

The strength of some of the reactions was way out of keeping with the decisions being made in each instance, and I'd suggest that's because those posters are biased and are looking for any reason to criticise the manager. 

 

They've their minds up and that's that.

 

If he turns right, he should have turned left; if he turns left, he should have turned right. He can't win with them, because they don't want him to.

[Joe Sunburn]

DM may not be Mr. Tomorrow but he's defo Mr. This Season in terms of the immediate requirements are. 

[Owls2k]

19 hours ago, bladeshater said:

Does anyone on here still believe Moore as lost the dressing room after watching players dig in like that

I don't think Moore's lost the dressing room. I think he's well liked. 

 

I just don't think he's a very good football manager. 

 

If we're going to applaud the manager for the lads digging in in the final 30 mins then I think it's only fair to question him on how badly we started the match.

 

 

[prowl]

2 hours ago, HootHoot said:

Mate, games in hand don't mean anything if you don't win them. Plymouth play MK Don's tonight. One of them will drop points and then we've closed the gap on one of them.

 

Those games in hand will inevitably involve teams above us playing each other. All we have to do is keep doing our job on the pitch (yes that includes wins) and we'll be in the top 6 come end of the season.

 

We're playing much better now and when we get the injured players back, we'll be a force to be reckoned with. 

 

Try having some positivity once in a while eh? It doesn't hurt.

Teams tend to pick up points at a steady rate over the season, not always obviously but it's a decent rule of thumb. That means it's not too difficult to work out how teams would be placed if they had all played the same number of games.Assuming we had all played 21 points this would be the position....

 

Wigan               44

 

Rotherham       43

 

Wycombe         41

 

Sunderland       41

 

Oxford               38

 

Plymouth          38

 

MK Dons           38

 

SWFC                34

 

Effectively we will on average gain 1 point on the teams above every time we win and lose 1 point on them for every draw.  We currently need 4 wins on the trot to get into the play off places.  As I say not completely accurate but it does indicate we need to get winning games urgently.

 

To get top 2 we need one of those teams to hit a prolonged bad patch or we need to win 9 more games than they do. It looks a tall order to me. Stranger things have happened.

[parajack]

2 hours ago, DoesJackHunt said:

nothing less than 9 points from the next 3 is ever enough for you. 

Your right,

heres why : because thats the result conundrum we have placed ourselves in,throwing away points in the early part of the season,by too many draws,creating too few chances,and because of DM insistence on playing it out with a lone striker and setting a side up to worry about our opposition.

As a consequence Teams above us have more points and games in hand.

leaving us needing to win games rather than see a draw as 'still as result'....1 point whilst others get three simply not good enough now.

We arent the only side on long unbeaten 'runs' look at Rotherham.    

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

22 minutes ago, parajack said:

Everybodys entitled to their opinion,especially if they support it with their own debate.I accept the points you have made,but dont forget the points deduction etc were applied last season,ditto players leaving etc etc.

Shouldnt in my view detract from critique(justified in my view) of the strange choices and line ups we have seen at times this season.

All teams have comings and goings of players,injury's, and at times changes of manager....and there comes a time when you have to say enough of excuses...

Fan base is split on this,so i think lets have a look at our next three results,performances,and where we are in the Division after them.

 

I don’t think the fan base is as split as you think 

[parajack]

2 hours ago, HootHoot said:

Mate, games in hand don't mean anything if you don't win them. Plymouth play MK Don's tonight. One of them will drop points and then we've closed the gap on one of them.

 

Those games in hand will inevitably involve teams above us playing each other. All we have to do is keep doing our job on the pitch (yes that includes wins) and we'll be in the top 6 come end of the season.

 

We're playing much better now and when we get the injured players back, we'll be a force to be reckoned with. 

 

Try having some positivity once in a while eh? It doesn't hurt.

I dont buy into this 'positivity' BS it changes nothing,yes some teams will drop points,inevitable but i feel your being too blase about our League position.

Nearly Xmas and we are still trotting out 'when we get injured players back'? We ****ing well should be a force to be reckoned with,its Division 3..

ime a Wednesdayite,i want you to be right,and for me to be wrong.....than i watch performances like last night and think...

 

[parajack]

3 minutes ago, DoesJackHunt said:

I don’t think the fan base is as split as you think 

None of us know what the entire fan base think........my opinion remains the same,certainly a cross section of the forum is....

Only season end will see if the season can be seen as a plus or minus...and even than it depends on your focus.

I personally wouldn't see achieving a play off place as success,not with our circumstances if Rotherham & WW achieved automatic promotion.

 

[parajack]

19 minutes ago, prowl said:

Teams tend to pick up points at a steady rate over the season, not always obviously but it's a decent rule of thumb. That means it's not too difficult to work out how teams would be placed if they had all played the same number of games.Assuming we had all played 21 points this would be the position....

 

Wigan               44

 

Rotherham       43

 

Wycombe         41

 

Sunderland       41

 

Oxford               38

 

Plymouth          38

 

MK Dons           38

 

SWFC                34

 

Effectively we will on average gain 1 point on the teams above every time we win and lose 1 point on them for every draw.  We currently need 4 wins on the trot to get into the play off places.  As I say not completely accurate but it does indicate we need to get winning games urgently.

 

To get top 2 we need one of those teams to hit a prolonged bad patch or we need to win 9 more games than they do. It looks a tall order to me. Stranger things have happened.

Cheers just underpins what i was trying to say,personally i think its unrealistic to expect our side to win every game,yet the enormity of our task seems to have evaded many,who seem to think  being unbeaten is the mark of  success.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, parajack said:

Cheers just underpins what i was trying to say,personally i think its unrealistic to expect our side to win every game,yet the enormity of our task seems to have evaded many,who seem to think  being unbeaten is the mark of  success.

Literally nobody has suggested it's the mark of success

 

It's an indicator of not being rubbish

And when you compare it to the results before that it's an indicator of significant improvement

 

Stop trying to spin what people are actually saying into something you want to suggest they're saying

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

14 minutes ago, parajack said:

None of us know what the entire fan base think........my opinion remains the same,certainly a cross section of the forum is....

Only season end will see if the season can be seen as a plus or minus...and even than it depends on your focus.

I personally wouldn't see achieving a play off place as success,not with our circumstances if Rotherham & WW achieved automatic promotion.

 

Ok but I don’t get why its the WW and Rovrum thing that’s frustrating you. We don’t have a divine right to be better than them. Why if they do better than us does it define our season ? 

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

45 minutes ago, parajack said:

Your right,

heres why : because thats the result conundrum we have placed ourselves in,throwing away points in the early part of the season,by too many draws,creating too few chances,and because of DM insistence on playing it out with a lone striker and setting a side up to worry about our opposition.

As a consequence Teams above us have more points and games in hand.

leaving us needing to win games rather than see a draw as 'still as result'....1 point whilst others get three simply not good enough now.

We arent the only side on long unbeaten 'runs' look at Rotherham.    

It depends on your expectations I guess 

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

2 hours ago, Owls2k said:

I don't think Moore's lost the dressing room. I think he's well liked. 

 

I just don't think he's a very good football manager. 

 

If we're going to applaud the manager for the lads digging in in the final 30 mins then I think it's only fair to question him on how badly we started the match.

 

 

We had gone down to ten Men away away at Portsmouth (which is miles away) on a cold winters night. They are doing ok themselves. 
They deserve praise for coming away with a point don’t they?

why is that bad management? 
 

[parajack]

5 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

There have been some decisions which look a bit odd from the outside looking in, yeah.

 

But that doesn't explain some of the comments last night criticising the selection of Paterson at centre back when we simply get no other option, or suggesting bringing Wing on was a an incomprehensible decision.

 

The strength of some of the reactions was way out of keeping with the decisions being made in each instance, and I'd suggest that's because those posters are biased and are looking for any reason to criticise the manager. 

 

They've their minds up and that's that.

 

If he turns right, he should have turned left; if he turns left, he should have turned right. He can't win with them, because they don't want him to.

Same with every manager Jos,GM,TP, all took flak.....only the all conquering 'Bruce slayer of dragons' with his 'Right said Fred' lookalike sidekicks could no harm...