Christian Erickson.

[HIGHERSTATE]

Im not making any argument.

 

But if it had cut straight to black the internet would have broken with rumours of him dying. 

 

They needed someone to take charge in the production of it.  Or faded to linekar to explain things.

 

But because of the rarity of the incident there was probably no set procedure.

[Jack of Clubs]

Might be wise to just lock this post now as he’s clearly stabilised and much better.

[Ellis Rimmer]

45 minutes ago, El Toro said:

Might be wise to just lock this post now as he’s clearly stabilised and much better.

why would it need to be locked?

 

3 hours ago, Musn't Grumble said:

This is why we should have basic first aid training before we leave school as part of the national curriculum.

 

These accidents and incidents always happen when you are least likely to expect them and usually there are no suitably trained people around to help at the time.

 

As a sports coach, I must have basic first aid training at least every three years to keep my coaching qualification. Whilst I have  been lucky in that I have not attended to seriously injured people, I have attended to athletes who have been rendered unconscious and had injuries such as a broken bones including compounded fractures to sort out. I really hope that I do not encounter anything like the Eriksen situation but I know that my training would be a big help if I had to.

 

With appropriate first aid training, attending to any of those situations might just save someone their life.

I agree with this, it's so simple yet most people don't know what to do.

[Jack of Clubs]

7 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

why would it need to be locked?

Just lots of presumptions and ill-educated posts.

 

Having lost a friend to the same scenario it’s grim to read. Guess I’ll just ignore the thread. 

[scram]

9 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

 

I agree with this, it's so simple yet most people don't know what to do.

 

 

This is why there was a move to do just chest compressions for CPR

 

When i first started doing basic first aid courses a couple of decades ago we were taught the make up of different gases in the air - and how it compared with exhaled air being delivered to a recipient of mouth-to-mouth resuscitation! 

 

It is entirely irrelevant information

 

As i've gone through the years onto advanced life support and medical management of serious casualties one of my "feedback" points to the course developers has always been the same and it holds true for the most basic of courses

 

Strip everything right back to the basics of what to do - how to assess, recognise and treat

 

Everything else is superfluous

 

Having a dozen things whirring around the brain of a bystander thrown into the most traumatic of life-saving situations is not helpful - is it 30:2 - do ylou start with rescue breaths or is it after 5 compressions etc

 

Just doing constant chest compressions will keep the circulation pumping - their own oxygen reserves will suffice as performing rescue breaths is only delivering oxygen depleted air anyway

 

Keeping it simple for the untrained is giving them a decent chance of responding appropriately

[thesouthowl]

9 minutes ago, El Toro said:

Just lots of presumptions and ill-educated posts.

Might as well close Owlstalk then too

[Ellis Rimmer]

5 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

This is why there was a move to do just chest compressions for CPR

 

When i first started doing basic first aid courses a couple of decades ago we were taught the make up of different gases in the air - and how it compared with exhaled air being delivered to a recipient of mouth-to-mouth resuscitation! 

 

It is entirely irrelevant information

 

As i've gone through the years onto advanced life support and medical management of serious casualties one of my "feedback" points to the course developers has always been the same and it holds true for the most basic of courses

 

Strip everything right back to the basics of what to do - how to assess, recognise and treat

 

Everything else is superfluous

 

Having a dozen things whirring around the brain of a bystander thrown into the most traumatic of life-saving situations is not helpful - is it 30:2 - do ylou start with rescue breaths or is it after 5 compressions etc

 

Just doing constant chest compressions will keep the circulation pumping - their own oxygen reserves will suffice as performing rescue breaths is only delivering oxygen depleted air anyway

 

Keeping it simple for the untrained is giving them a decent chance of responding appropriately

I agree, loads of acronyms I don't remember right now

 

It's all over the place...I am first aider for the health centre I work in and on that course they teach various aspects differently to when I do the trusts mandatory training of it

 

They started teaching just doing the chest compressions with the Vinnie Jones staying alive adverts but was quite short lived that

[scram]

Nellie the Elephant (x2) is still my go-to...

 

But again what does it matter really?

 

Just pump that chest and keep oxygen circulating to keep the organs and tissues viable until expert help can take over

 

For those with a wider skillset, equipment and knowledge then they will act accordingly

 

Even an AED - which has walk-through instructions is confusing for somebody thats never seen or handled one

[83owl]

15 minutes ago, scram said:

Nellie the Elephant (x2) is still my go-to...

 

But again what does it matter really?

 

Just pump that chest and keep oxygen circulating to keep the organs and tissues viable until expert help can take over

 

For those with a wider skillset, equipment and knowledge then they will act accordingly

 

Even an AED - which has walk-through instructions is confusing for somebody thats never seen or handled one

You would have to be blind, deaf or a special kind of stupid to not be able to work an AED. 

[scram]

Because of course everybody knows exactly what to do when faced with a technically dead person and a piece of kit they've never seen before...

[scram]

5 hours ago, FlyingOwl said:

Read that Italian law states he’ll not be able to continue playing for Inter Milan now it’s confirmed he’s had a heart attack.

 

I mean. I imagine he’ll just retire. But if he chose to continue playing, which I doubt, it seems he’d have to leave Italy.

 

Also read that because he plays for an Italian club it’s even more shocking that he’s had a heart issue because their medical screening is one of the best in the world for these things, although this potentially points towards a conclusion that he didn’t have an underlying heart issue and it was just a random occurrence 

 

Their screening for pro players  is not better than here tbh - but they were the standard bearers long before us and i believe they offer screening for all youngsters involved in sport?

 

If he has had a heart attack it's almost certain  he can never play football again - almost certainly there will be damage or scarring of the heart muscle and any regional motion abnormality of the heart will be the end of a professional career - however there is the light chance that the prompt attention has prevented any level of damage but at the very minimum it needs to be understood how this has happened to an extremely fit, healthy young guy who has had extensive medical and cardiac checks over the last 15 years or so.

 

So in truth i cannot see him playing top level football again - but not too much is really known right now so i'll leave that caveat...

 

But as with many heart attack survivors it needn't be the end of him having a long, fruitful and productive life

[soldierboyblue]

9 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I agree, loads of acronyms I don't remember right now

 

It's all over the place...I am first aider for the health centre I work in and on that course they teach various aspects differently to when I do the trusts mandatory training of it

 

They started teaching just doing the chest compressions with the Vinnie Jones staying alive adverts but was quite short lived that

As a trauma medic I was taught

 

Airways, Breathing, Circulation, Disability, Exposure (ABCDE)

 

However in Afghanistan we did CABCDE due to the fact that if you did not stabilise a catastrophic bleed first the patient would be dead

[latemodelchild]

I'm first aid trained and have seen various different sessions as far as cpr goes. Last time we did it there was an emphasis on the chest compression parts mainly. Rescue breaths and the ratios etc were taught but honestly I can't remember them right now. I need a refresher but if called upon I know how to do the basics. I'm of the opinion that I never want to have to do it. 

 

Every single person who helped save his life needs to be commended and congratulated, as does anyone who does this type of thing for anyone at any level of society. To know that you are responsible for someone else still being alive must be incredible. Massive respect is due. 

[latemodelchild]

11 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

As a trauma medic I was taught

 

Airways, Breathing, Circulation, Disability, Exposure (ABCDE)

 

However in Afghanistan we did CABCDE due to the fact that if you did not stabilise a catastrophic bleed first the patient would be dead

Good point on the bleeding. I'm assuming that the ABC version that I was taught is because we're more likely to come across situations where there isn't catastrophic bleeding, ie heart attacks etc, in general. In a warzone those bleeds are more prevalent I'd think. I assume you've served or are serving in our armed forces so thank you. (I know that's a bit of an American thing but I always make a point of thanking you guys whether people like it or not) 

[Guest Hornsby]

14 hours ago, FlyingOwl said:

Read that Italian law states he’ll not be able to continue playing for Inter Milan now it’s confirmed he’s had a heart attack.

 

I mean. I imagine he’ll just retire. But if he chose to continue playing, which I doubt, it seems he’d have to leave Italy.

 

Also read that because he plays for an Italian club it’s even more shocking that he’s had a heart issue because their medical screening is one of the best in the world for these things, although this potentially points towards a conclusion that he didn’t have an underlying heart issue and it was just a random occurrence 

Because the syndrome many footballers have was first discovered by a cardiologist at Padua university hospital in Northern Italy.

 

You can't do any organised sport there without certificates confirming you are fit for the event, even young kids footy. Very strict.

 

Incident highlights what a wonderful community footy world mostly is.

[soldierboyblue]

4 minutes ago, latemodelchild said:

Good point on the bleeding. I'm assuming that the ABC version that I was taught is because we're more likely to come across situations where there isn't catastrophic bleeding, ie heart attacks etc, in general. In a warzone those bleeds are more prevalent I'd think. I assume you've served or are serving in our armed forces so thank you. (I know that's a bit of an American thing but I always make a point of thanking you guys whether people like it or not) 

The ABC is exactly what you say as you are far more likely to come across an non-breathing casualty than someone with a limb missing. I am now 4 years happily retired (and thanks). It's something you never ever forget and I thought that I would never have to use it again however 2 years ago my neighbour collapsed and me and a couple of friends had to perform CPR on him for over 20 minutes until the Air Ambulance got here (I live quite rurally). Unfortunately we were not successful in trying to save him and I knew that he was gone when we were fighting to save him as he had lost control of his bodily functions but we didn't stop until relieved. The new de-fib kits are amazing and do tell you what to do quite literally

[scram]

2 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

As a trauma medic I was taught

 

Airways, Breathing, Circulation, Disability, Exposure (ABCDE)

 

However in Afghanistan we did CABCDE due to the fact that if you did not stabilise a catastrophic bleed first the patient would be dead

 

 

Yes it can be context-specific and then there are the caveats - which also change with context

 

For eg we are always told to ensure that we weren't putting ourselves in danger before tending to a casualty - then check for a response - ABCDE has now become Dr ABCDE

 

Then in football (and rugby i believe) we are trained to manage the cervical spine if any suspicion it could have been damaged or vulnerable - so immobilising the C spine comes before managing the airway....

 

So now it becomes Dr Cx ABCDE etc etc

 

Then if the casualty is suspected of having a cardiac event then that supersedes managing the cervical spine and CPR commences immediately

 

We were also trained to control as far as possible any catastrophic bleed - unlikely in a football scenario however fractured femurs for eg can bleed out to lower the blood pressure to such an extent the peripheral pulse can be lost - and potentially even death

[latemodelchild]

I think I was taught Dr ABC the first time I did training. 

[soldierboyblue]

38 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Yes it can be context-specific and then there are the caveats - which also change with context

 

For eg we are always told to ensure that we weren't putting ourselves in danger before tending to a casualty - then check for a response - ABCDE has now become Dr ABCDE

 

Then in football (and rugby i believe) we are trained to manage the cervical spine if any suspicion it could have been damaged or vulnerable - so immobilising the C spine comes before managing the airway....

 

So now it becomes Dr Cx ABCDE etc etc

 

Then if the casualty is suspected of having a cardiac event then that supersedes managing the cervical spine and CPR commences immediately

 

We were also trained to control as far as possible any catastrophic bleed - unlikely in a football scenario however fractured femurs for eg can bleed out to lower the blood pressure to such an extent the peripheral pulse can be lost - and potentially even death

So what you refer to is the principles of first aid one of which is don't become a casualty yourself and the other one is protect life. There are loads of different scenarios and I remember when I qualified back in the 90s mine included extracting casualties from a 'downed Wessex helicopter' and then treating them. The rule for medics back in the day was 1 medic to treat 5 casualties and it was a thrashing trying to keep 5 people alive concurrently. 

 

One of the first thing we used to check was C1 and C2 to make sure that there was no deformity before extending the head to clear the airway etc. Complex fractures can result in severe internal bleeding but that's why all teams now have a Dr as well as a physio to quickly triage patients. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, 83owl said:

You would have to be blind, deaf or a special kind of stupid to not be able to work an AED. 

 

14 hours ago, scram said:

Because of course everybody knows exactly what to do when faced with a technically dead person and a piece of kit they've never seen before...

 

If you've never seen one in use before and you are suddenly faced with a traumatic situation there might well be a natural reaction to panic or to be over cautious when not knowing how the equipment works at all.

 

I recently underwent CPR training and the use of an AED is relatively straightforward once you know where to start and when to use it but for someone thrust into that situation without any experience or knowledge I can imagine many people would freeze or panic.

 

Completely agree that basic life support training should be provided in schools, these are life skills that could make a real difference. Just having the confidence and awareness of how to provide support until the professionals can take over might save someone's life.