Managers

[Guest]

1 hour ago, soldierboyblue said:

A few quid - really he spent a load of money on a lot of inferior players and dismantled a side that just needed tinkering with. The start of the current demise

 

His tinkering initially was good. He added Waddle, Bright, Walker, Bart-Williams. Even the much maligned Woods was an improvement on what we had at the time though his tendency to save his rickets for the big games cost us dear.

 

These players added to the squad but it was when he had to replace the key players that were ageing/leaving that he got it badly wrong.

Nilsson was always going to be difficult to replace, Atherton was a steady PL player but not in the same league.

Our leader, Pearson was replaced by a hod carrier in Pearce. 

Ian Nolan had a decent reputation at the time we signed him but wasn't a patch on Wortho, Andy Sinton should have been a good signing but never produced the goods.

Palmer went to Leeds and was not replaced, Ian Taylor proved to be a decent PL midfielder but for some reason Francis played him wide midfield where he looked like a duck out of water. 

 

There was the fallout with Warhurst and the dressing room mole episode, he had lost the trust of the players and was probably dismissed at the right time but to link him to our current demise is a bit much. Managers come and go at all clubs, it has been 25 years since he left and we spent a fair bit of money after he had gone, far bigger mistakes were made than those that can be attributed to Francis in terms of where we are now.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, room0035 said:

I think Carlos big mistake was not getting Stuart Gray to stay as his No2, he built us a fit well drilled team that we saw in Carlos first season, the engine room of Hutch and Lee where there because of the conditioning of Gray.

 

Had Gray stayed instead of Bullen, I think Carlos would have had a better chance but equally what manager would be No2 when he was No1.

 

Had we played the way under Carlos in the next 2 season but will a fit and health team coached well by Gray we probably would have got up, the other issue of course was the Chairman's advise advicing to buy a load of players that added little to nothing to the team other than Debt, Emanuelson - who ever signed him should have been sacked on the spot thousands a week for 37 minutes of football.

 

Its a good point regarding Gray, he has proved to be a very good assistant coach during his career and would probably have had more to offer tactically than Bullen. However, I doubt it was Carlos who decided that Bullen would be the one to stay when Chansiri changed the management team and as you say, it would have been unlikely to see Gray accept a demotion from being manager to becoming a coach under a guy he had never met. 

[ponym110]

Echo most peoples thought from above but i'd also give major kudos to Laws for distancing himself from the then board and the legal cases against the fans.  

[Ozymandias]

Irvine nearly sent me blind - True story 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, ponym110 said:

Echo most peoples thought from above but i'd also give major kudos to Laws for distancing himself from the then board and the legal cases against the fans.  

 

I spoke to Brian Laws a couple times when he was manager, only briefly but he came across as a genuine honest bloke. As others have said he seemed to really appreciate managing the club even though it was an uphill task at the time and he made a decent fist of it. 

[Lawrie Madden]

7 hours ago, Watto said:

 

You forgot Steve Burtenshaw 

I didn't forget anyone its just my fave managers while ive been watching us live 

[Lawrie Madden]

6 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

No I'm not mistaking Francis for Pleat - Francis was the start of the demise and saying that he was a few quid short of winning the league is totally wide of the mark. 

I don't agree at all Francis did spend a lot of money but i still think a couple of marquee signings and we would have been proper contenders 

[BARMYARMY2010]

8 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Irvine nearly sent me blind - True story 

That bloke sent me mad............True story,awful,awful manager.

[torryowl]

8 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Which good young players did he lose?

 

 

quinn, bromby ,geary all released  coz we couldnt pay them ......

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, torryowl said:

quinn, bromby ,geary all released  coz we couldnt pay them ......

 

Quinn and Geary played for us regularly during the abysmally managed 2003-04 season under Turner. What do you blame that season on? Turner was making plans for that season from January of the previous season and it turned out to be the 2nd worst in our history. 

[torryowl]

9 hours ago, Blatter said:

That was because he changed Catterick’s up and at em style for a more cultured approach. Both very good managers compared to much of what followed though.

well the fans didnt like it , the average went from  31 k under catterick to 24k in vics last season .....i'm not calling buckingham as i wasnt really old enough to understand the tactical side of things but i do recall a lot of unrest with him probably unjustly as i think in the 3 years he was here he  was only  allowed to sign 3 players in pancho,bronco and doc ( he obviously was a fan of the cowboys )

[FreshOwl]

11 hours ago, room0035 said:

If it was not for megson sorting out the issue in league one we could still be there.

 

The same way as if Pearson had not kept Leicester up they never would have won the premier league the season after.

I didn’t see Megson get us out of any issue, Jones did by winning 10 of the remaining 12 games or whatever it was. We wouldn’t have done that with Megson 

[torryowl]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Quinn and Geary played for us regularly during the abysmally managed 2003-04 season under Turner. What do you blame that season on? Turner was making plans for that season from January of the previous season and it turned out to be the 2nd worst in our history. 

like i said he didnt have a prayer ......the season your on about he had to use 41 players .how can you possibly hope to be successful using that many .the centre forward kuqi who'd cost us an arm and a leg  had to be let go after a dozen games ., players were coming going like there was no tomorrow thru no fault of turner .....when finally he  could sign who  he wanted brunt,whelan,lucas, bullen,collins , mcclean,mcgovern , etc etc he got himself a good team that sadly for him someone else cashed in on . 

[SwellOwl]

3 minutes ago, torryowl said:

like i said he didnt have a prayer ......the season your on about he had to use 41 players .how can you possibly hope to be successful using that many .the centre forward kuqi who'd cost us an arm and a leg  had to be let go after a dozen games ., players were coming going like there was no tomorrow thru no fault of turner .....when finally he  could sign who  he wanted brunt,whelan,lucas, bullen,collins , mcclean,mcgovern , etc etc he got himself a good team that sadly for him someone else cashed in on . 

You do forget the signings Turner achieved, some unbelievable signings really and all on next to no budget.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, torryowl said:

like i said he didnt have a prayer ......the season your on about he had to use 41 players .how can you possibly hope to be successful using that many .the centre forward kuqi who'd cost us an arm and a leg  had to be let go after a dozen games ., players were coming going like there was no tomorrow thru no fault of turner .....when finally he  could sign who  he wanted brunt,whelan,lucas, bullen,collins , mcclean,mcgovern , etc etc he got himself a good team that sadly for him someone else cashed in on . 

 

He didn't have to use 41 players, he was just a useless manager who didn't know what he was doing.

 

You quoted having to get rid of Quinn and Geary as being a big issue yet they played throughout that season, left in the summer, Turner continued to get useless results and Sturrock got us promoted without the players you highlighted.

Good keeper for us, poor manager.

[torryowl]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

He didn't have to use 41 players, he was just a useless manager who didn't know what he was doing.

 

You quoted having to get rid of Quinn and Geary as being a big issue yet they played throughout that season, left in the summer, Turner continued to get useless results and Sturrock got us promoted without the players you highlighted.

Good keeper for us, poor manager.

what ?........sturrock got us promoted with the players that i said turner signed ...brunt ,whelan, mcclean, mcgovern, bullen ,lucas hecky etc etc ......how can you possibly say he didnt 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, torryowl said:

what ?........sturrock got us promoted with the players that i said turner signed ...brunt ,whelan, mcclean, mcgovern, bullen ,lucas hecky etc etc ......how can you possibly say he didnt 

 

Yes, the players Turner signed but could not get a tune out of because he couldn't manage the team effectively.

 

I was referring to the players you said Turner was hamstrung by losing in your previous post - Quinn, Geary. Turner had them in his complete failure season.

[Guest Bulgaria]

39 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

I didn’t see Megson get us out of any issue, Jones did by winning 10 of the remaining 12 games or whatever it was. We wouldn’t have done that with Megson 

Megson restored a sense of pride in playing for the shirt. Yes it went a bit pear shaped hence Jones coming in but don't underestimate the job Megson did, because when he arrived it was a shambles.

[Blatter]

41 minutes ago, torryowl said:

well the fans didnt like it , the average went from  31 k under catterick to 24k in vics last season .....i'm not calling buckingham as i wasnt really old enough to understand the tactical side of things but i do recall a lot of unrest with him probably unjustly as i think in the 3 years he was here he  was only  allowed to sign 3 players in pancho,bronco and doc ( he obviously was a fan of the cowboys )

Times were different. Catterick’s style was a ball winning defence, get it out to the wings ( the only part with grass in Winter) pile forward and get the ball to the big centre forward. It was successful and exciting to watch. Pretty much long ball by today’s standards.

Buckingham having managed in Holland got them playing more through midfield with a slower build up. Not what we were used to at all. Lots of unrest from the gerrit forrard brigade as I remember it. 

 

Record stood up pretty well though and would have been more popular these days for his attempt to play attractive football.

[Athelwulf]

57 minutes ago, Bulgaria said:

Megson restored a sense of pride in playing for the shirt. Yes it went a bit pear shaped hence Jones coming in but don't underestimate the job Megson did, because when he arrived it was a shambles.

 

Yes, Bulgaria, I agree.

 

It wasn't Megson or Jones who got us up, it was both of them.

 

We probably wouldn't have gone up had Meggo stayed, but Jones wouldn't have got the side Meggo inherited up either.

 

It wasn't either - or, it was both - and.