Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) You can have the greatest players in the world, but if you have a weak mindset and no game management, then even the best teams would struggle. We have a decent side with some good players, but if you don't have those two basic attributes then success will not be able to be attained. The scenario in the last two games have been happening since Carlos came to the club and its essentially the same set of players. Roughly its Westwood, Palmer, Fox, Lees, Hutchinson, Lee, Bannan, Reach, Forestieri, Fletcher, Nuhiu etc. The difference between the teams in this league are very small, as the quality is about the same. So it's the small things that make the difference and those are having a formation and tactics that suit the players, confidence, a strong mentality and consistency. Most of the successful teams in recent years have these attributes. In this era, a team attacks and defends together, so the team have to be organised and have some detailed game management to cope with different scenarios. This seems to be missing with regards to the current set of players at the club. We have had at least three managers since Carlos and the squad have roughly stayed the same. So I would imagine that most of these managers ( not Jos ) talked about formations, tactics, playing with pace, pressing the opponent and about being consistence, being confident and knowing a game plan and game management. Yet these things are still happening after four or five seasons. You can only keep saying the same things to the players, to realise this group of players can't essentially do the basics on a consistent basis. As an example, Tom Lees hasn't played for a while and so there has been a different centre back pairing. Tom Lees wasn't playing at Cardiff, but was yesterday and the same thing happened, in terms game management. Hutchinson was I believe playing at Cardiff but not yesterday, but the same thing happened. So you can swap the players around and the same thing happens. Not taking chances, conceding late minute and a game management that seems to go out of the window. For me it's pointing to fact that this group players don't have what it takes to get the successful the club are trying to achieve. What is your opinion ? Edited November 10, 2019 by Mick De Lyons 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22709 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Teams got a losing mentality, it’s been there since FF missed that pen and it’s hard to get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando17 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Mick De Lyons said: You can have the greatest players in the world, but if you have a weak mindset and no game management, then even the best teams would struggle. We have a decent side with some good players, but if you don't have those two basic attributes then success will not be able to be attained. The scenario in the last two games have been happening since Carlos came to the club and its essentially the same set of players. Roughly its Westwood, Palmer, Fox, Lees, Hutchinson, Lee, Bannan, Reach, Forestieri, Fletcher, Nuhiu etc. The difference between the teams in this league are very small, as the quality is about the same. So it's the small things that make the difference and those are having a formation and tactics that suit the players, confidence, a strong mentality and consistency. Most of the successful teams in recent years have these attributes. In this era, a team attacks and defends together, so the team have to be organised and have some detailed game management to cope with different scenarios. This seems to be missing with regards to the current set of players at the club. We have had at least three managers since Carlos and the squad have roughly stayed the same. So I would imagine that most of these managers ( not Jos ) talked about formations, tactics, playing with pace, pressing the opponent and about being consistence, being confident and knowing a game plan and game management. Yet these things are still happening after four or five seasons. You can only keep saying the same things to the players, to realise this group of players can't essentially do the basics on a consistent basis. As an example, Tom Lees hasn't played for a while and so there has been a different centre back pairing. Tom Lees wasn't playing at Cardiff, but was yesterday and the same thing happened, in terms game management. Hutchinson was I believe playing at Cardiff but not yesterday, but the same thing happened. So you can swap the players around and the same thing happens. Not taking chances, conceding late minute and a game management that seems to go out of the window. For me it's pointing to fact that this group players don't have what it takes to get the successful the club are trying to achieve. What is your opinion ? you have nailed it bud,we are so predictable to play against,workmanlike probably best describes us,hardly any creativity or flamboyance,we are really poor in the final 3rd ,as we have been for a couple of years now,when we score first,we immediately sit back,even when the opposition are crap, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Tom22709 said: Teams got a losing mentality, it’s been there since FF missed that pen and it’s hard to get rid of. Is it fair to say we have a losing mentality? We fought back to a winning position yesterday, I thought we battled well at the end, until a soft goal through lack of concentration, even then we didn’t lose. Having said that we are slowly drifting away from the top teams which is frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Monk has already indicated he knows he needs to make player changes both incomings and outgoings. I think he’ll get it sorted given time. Good that he’s already identified the way forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinger208b Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Mick De Lyons said: What is your opinion ? Interesting observation. I don’t quite understand the reference to Carlos because I remember feeling confident at the end of matches that a lead would be maintained or that a winner would be scored as they were well organised and applied the game plan through to the end more often than not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 the defending at the corner for their last goal was woeful - like school ground run to the ball stuff - three Swansea players going to the back post with one defender: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22709 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 43 minutes ago, Spookone said: Is it fair to say we have a losing mentality? We fought back to a winning position yesterday, I thought we battled well at the end, until a soft goal through lack of concentration, even then we didn’t lose. Having said that we are slowly drifting away from the top teams which is frustrating. I think the entire clubs got a losing mentality and has done for years. Fans fearing worst rather than being optimistic of something good happening, we can still have the odd good run of results or a decent season but theres always the fear of it all going belly up. We aren’t on our own there’s plenty of clubs like us where negativity just engulfes the entire club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBQ24 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tom22709 said: I think the entire clubs got a losing mentality and has done for years. Fans fearing worst rather than being optimistic of something good happening, we can still have the odd good run of results or a decent season but theres always the fear of it all going belly up. We aren’t on our own there’s plenty of clubs like us where negativity just engulfes the entire club My thoughts exactly. No confidence. We score in the last ten minutes and everyone thinks "oh sh*t" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 of the 11 that played yesterday we're involved in the play off final v Hull. Talk about a side that needs breaking up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 We need the captain to step up - he needs to control and motivate/instruct the players - we left 8 Swansea players in the danger area to be marked by 7 'defenders' at the corner - Bannans' just covering the edge of the six yard box for the fluffed corner. Don't know who is suppose to be marking no 19 - he essentially is left to challenge Westwood who is less than convincing trying to punch the ball - terrible game management and 2 points given away : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, marshy said: 7 of the 11 that played yesterday we're involved in the play off final v Hull. Talk about a side that needs breaking up. Exactly. We have gone stale . The majority of our players had to play offs and failed to get up ,but now they are two or three years older and aren't going to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 57 minutes ago, Tom22709 said: Teams got a losing mentality, it’s been there since FF missed that pen and it’s hard to get rid of. I agree, the mentality is very weak. Our confidence wasn't been the same since the play off defeat to Huddersfield and I think that is the same game you mentioned regarding Forestieri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookieisdown Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Overall we are doing a little better than I expected. What perhaps is a little frustrating is that against Leeds we genuinely looked like strong top six candidates but perhaps it's best to see that as a token of what may be possible next year rather than the benchmark for this one. Yesterday to me was less about game management and more about imbalance. With just Lee and Bannan in the middle and a centre defence playing deep we looked vulnerable after an excellent opening. It's the ancient dilemma of how do you balance the team so it attacks freely but can fight its corner defensively. It would be unfair to say this team has never begun to solve it. Two top six finishes contradict that. But it hasn't ever been fully cracked and Monk hasn't quite found hi answer yet. If I knew the answer I would change job. I do think there is a lack of leadership on field and Lees is lacking there. Bannan isn't the best alternative. To Lees is currently fourth best centre half at the club and the captaincy needs a serious look in the light of that There is a lack of on field leadership too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, Brando17 said: you have nailed it bud,we are so predictable to play against,workmanlike probably best describes us,hardly any creativity or flamboyance,we are really poor in the final 3rd ,as we have been for a couple of years now,when we score first,we immediately sit back,even when the opposition are crap, I agree. I'm most of our games we don't play well and if we win a game lots like we just about stumble of the line. I do think we lack confidence to attack teams and don't have the mentality to be positive in our play. We sit back way too often and as you say are really predictable to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, Spookone said: Is it fair to say we have a losing mentality? We fought back to a winning position yesterday, I thought we battled well at the end, until a soft goal through lack of concentration, even then we didn’t lose. Having said that we are slowly drifting away from the top teams which is frustrating. I don't think we have a " losing mentality " as we don't lose many games. But getting a win is a struggle most of the time and I think the weak mentality is more about not having the confidence to dictate play and attack teams or to see a game out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, theowlsman said: Monk has already indicated he knows he needs to make player changes both incomings and outgoings. I think he’ll get it sorted given time. Good that he’s already identified the way forward. I think he knows what is wrong and what he needs. Whether he has funds for January i don't know. But there will be plenty of changes in the summer and some leaving maybe some favourites. But I think we need to be free from this financial embargo to make the real changes we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, slinger208b said: Interesting observation. I don’t quite understand the reference to Carlos because I remember feeling confident at the end of matches that a lead would be maintained or that a winner would be scored as they were well organised and applied the game plan through to the end more often than not... Maybe in the first season or maybe the second i granted. But after that, the football become predictable and poor at times and in his last season it was pretty awful at times. But even in the those two initial seasons, we didn't close games out as he should have done at times and the dropping back in games and playing along the back four started then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, Animis said: the defending at the corner for their last goal was woeful - like school ground run to the ball stuff - three Swansea players going to the back post with one defender: We've struggled with set pieces for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick De Lyons Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, Tom22709 said: I think the entire clubs got a losing mentality and has done for years. Fans fearing worst rather than being optimistic of something good happening, we can still have the odd good run of results or a decent season but theres always the fear of it all going belly up. We aren’t on our own there’s plenty of clubs like us where negativity just engulfes the entire club This is one of our main problems, the negativity around the club, but it's up to the team to make the fans be more confidence in their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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