On Jos...

[Guest Manwithastick]

11 hours ago, Owling Wolfe said:

Not too fussed about you recalling my posts, it's not a vanity project for me on here so my "game" is just fine thank you. Interested to know why you dont think he will get us promoted when he has done so well with half a squad though.

 

Interested to know why you think he will get us promoted? I get we have had injuries, every team has injuries. We'll net spend zero or less this summer. We have a 

 

worrying number of still contracted ageing crocks and no longer got the skills players that will continue to bloat the squad for some time yet. With all that set aside 

 

I see nothing in Luhukay's make up that makes me think he'll do anything more than mid table mediocrity followed by the sack, possibly by Christmas. 

 

But that's not the current Owlstalk way, is it? 

[the monk]

12 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

If the experience with Carlos is anything to go by, it will be a large section of the fan base that will lose patience after a few difficult results, not the chairman.

 

The question for me is whether Chansiri's approach changes so as to be appease the vocal "Jos Out" Twitter abusers or whether he keeps his principle of loyalty and patience.

A few difficult results...  and a month with virtually no shots on goal 

[coopswfc76]

4 minutes ago, vulva said:

Comparing Jos to Carlos will be an interesting one in 3 years time, as Jos will need to have achieved the playoffs twice. 

 

With the same squad. 

 

I was/am a big Carlos fan but even I can Jos has a harder job without the same financial backing and a few of the better players getting older.

However hopefully Jos can get us in the play offs as I've a feeling he'd get us up if we did.

[Tamworthowl]

20 minutes ago, Manwithastick said:

 

Interested to know why you think he will get us promoted? I get we have had injuries, every team has injuries. We'll net spend zero or less this summer. We have a 

 

worrying number of still contracted ageing crocks and no longer got the skills players that will continue to bloat the squad for some time yet. With all that set aside 

 

I see nothing in Luhukay's make up that makes me think he'll do anything more than mid table mediocrity followed by the sack, possibly by Christmas. 

 

But that's not the current Owlstalk way, is it? 

 

Your conclusion that injuries, net zero spend, retained contracted crocks, loss of skilled players, will result in mid table mediocrity seems a fair assessment. 

 

If that turns out to be true, would you be one of those calling for his sacking by Christmas?

If so, why?

 

Based on your assessment of the situation likely at the start of next season mid table mediocrity would be quite an achievement by Jos. Something for mild praise, not sacking surely.

[Plonk]

Again a big Carlos fan, but he took over a fairly stable mid table team and was given big financial backing. The signing of FF at the time was amazing. His first season was brilliant but we all know what happened next.

 

jos has inherited a bit a train wreck in my opinion. He has steadied it and recent results are putting a shine on it.

 

im interested to see, given what I’ve read abou5 him, what he can do. With a full pre season.  I’m expecting a far fitter, and together bunch of players come August. I’m also expecting a far younger squad.

 

all positives for me and I’m looking forward to what he can do.

[savi]

CC was provided with the largest budget we have seen for some time, with that budget it is debatable as to whether it was spent well.

Personally he should have gone after the Uddersfield debacle, this season players were clearly unfit, blame being laid at the Physios door, no plan B and lets be fair no bottle at all against that lot across the city at Hillsborough.

JL comes in, I for one was a wreck for his first game in charge, a reserve team and the last time we played them they bullied us on our own patch.

Wow, what a performance, that game alone tells me with a fully fit squad of players I believe we will be in and around the top 6 next season.

Still think there are 3/4 players we need to offload to open up funds but that is easier said than done.

[Owling Wolfe]

1 hour ago, vulva said:

Comparing Jos to Carlos will be an interesting one in 3 years time, as Jos will need to have achieved the playoffs twice. 

 

With the same squad. 

and about £40Million pound net spend. You really do like digging in don't you

[Owling Wolfe]

1 hour ago, Manwithastick said:

 

Interested to know why you think he will get us promoted? I get we have had injuries, every team has injuries. We'll net spend zero or less this summer. We have a 

 

worrying number of still contracted ageing crocks and no longer got the skills players that will continue to bloat the squad for some time yet. With all that set aside 

 

I see nothing in Luhukay's make up that makes me think he'll do anything more than mid table mediocrity followed by the sack, possibly by Christmas. 

 

But that's not the current Owlstalk way, is it? 

I never said he WILL get us promoted but the negativity and chopping and changing managers will achieve absolutely nothing. The bloke has worked miracles with what he had available and I do think he deserves both respect and a chance to build his own team and see wher irt takes us. The alternative is to turn into a negative fanny and moan about everything the club does, personally I call myself a supporter, so that's what I do.

[Spookone]

Starting to really look forward to next season - just hope we hold onto FF and BB.

[Guest Manwithastick]

1 hour ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

Your conclusion that injuries, net zero spend, retained contracted crocks, loss of skilled players, will result in mid table mediocrity seems a fair assessment. 

 

If that turns out to be true, would you be one of those calling for his sacking by Christmas?

If so, why?

 

Based on your assessment of the situation likely at the start of next season mid table mediocrity would be quite an achievement by Jos. Something for mild praise, not sacking surely.

 

26 minutes ago, Owling Wolfe said:

I never said he WILL get us promoted but the negativity and chopping and changing managers will achieve absolutely nothing. The bloke has worked miracles with what he had available and I do think he deserves both respect and a chance to build his own team and see wher irt takes us. The alternative is to turn into a negative fanny and moan about everything the club does, personally I call myself a supporter, so that's what I do.

 

My point is that in Owlstalkland the current prevailing sentiment is that Jos is the second coming and we'll be right in the mix if not promoted by xmas.

 

And anyone who doesn't subscribe to this narrative is instantly shot down and negged to hell. I've seen absolutely nothing to back up this level of optimism 

 

coupled with hounding those that don't subscribe. 

 

If/when we fail to be 20 points clear by 2019 as some on here seem so sure we will be, then you can be assured that those same daydreamers will be lighting the torches 

 

and demanding his head. 

 

Personally, if we are to be the next Ipswich (i.e. mid table fixture for the next 5 years), which I think we will be, I'd rather it were much less grey and dull than it will be 

 

with Luhukay in charge.

[Tamworthowl]

8 minutes ago, Manwithastick said:

 

 

My point is that in Owlstalkland the current prevailing sentiment is that Jos is the second coming and we'll be right in the mix if not promoted by xmas.

 

And anyone who doesn't subscribe to this narrative is instantly shot down and negged to hell. I've seen absolutely nothing to back up this level of optimism 

 

coupled with hounding those that don't subscribe. 

 

If/when we fail to be 20 points clear by 2019 as some on here seem so sure we will be, then you can be assured that those same daydreamers will be lighting the torches 

 

and demanding his head. 

 

Personally, if we are to be the next Ipswich (i.e. mid table fixture for the next 5 years), which I think we will be, I'd rather it were much less grey and dull than it will be 

 

with Luhukay in charge.

 

Totally agree that there is lot of way over the top optimism. Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but with many Owlstalkers optimism based on hope soon morphs into expectation and, if those expctations aren't met, disappointment and criticism.  

 

A lot of this optimism is based on 5 wins in 7. But that good record glosses over the fact that those five wins were against poor/indifferent opposition. As you point out, we still have a long way to go to be promotion material and Jos has shown little to suggest he will deliver promotion in the short term. But equally, I think you are being overly pessimistic in suggesting that with Luhukay in charge it will be "grey and dull". There is no substantial evidence to say this will be the case.

 

Just as you can't say JL will deliver promotion next season, you can't say he will deliver dull and grey. All we have seen is a man achieve modest success (heading for relegation turned to mid table) with a dispirited team of reserves, returning long term absentees and U23s. What will happen when he's had a preseason with a (near) full squad and gets them playing to his style? Indeed, what is his style? We don't know. It could go either way, but I prefer to be cautiously optimistic, tempered by a bit of realism.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I think a lot of the negativity surrounding Jos, is simply borne out because he wasn't and still isn't particularly well known. We can all check the interweb regarding his past achievements, and there are some very good pieces regarding his style and work ethic, but at times since his appointment, he has had fans confused in terms of team selection and formation.

 

But, and is is a big but, look at what he achieved in his first month here. Three draws against Sheffield Utd, Cardiff and Middlesborough, with barely a squad to choose from. Things have improved under him, and as is stands, we have lost the same number of games as our city rivals, and who would have thought that would be the case come the turn of the year.

 

Jos, has blooded young players, and not in meaningless games, which is going to do them a world of good. He switched to a back 3, which many have wanted for a while, and he steadied the sinking ship. He does deserve a great deal of credit.

 

As the season progressed and relegation was eased from our mind, you could clearly see a change in him. First team regulars returning, coupled with bit part players getting their opportunities and taking them, lead me to believe that next season will be a hell of a lot better. I get that people believe he isn't the man to get us promoted, but the same could be levelled at Carlos, and he got us close.

 

Pragmatic is a word I would use to describe Jos, and with a pre season to work with, a decent squad, and a little more luck with injuries, I see no reason why we can't be in and around the top 6 for the majority of the season.

 

 

[Owling Wolfe]

1 hour ago, Manwithastick said:

 

 

My point is that in Owlstalkland the current prevailing sentiment is that Jos is the second coming and we'll be right in the mix if not promoted by xmas.

 

And anyone who doesn't subscribe to this narrative is instantly shot down and negged to hell. I've seen absolutely nothing to back up this level of optimism 

 

coupled with hounding those that don't subscribe. 

 

If/when we fail to be 20 points clear by 2019 as some on here seem so sure we will be, then you can be assured that those same daydreamers will be lighting the torches 

 

and demanding his head. 

 

Personally, if we are to be the next Ipswich (i.e. mid table fixture for the next 5 years), which I think we will be, I'd rather it were much less grey and dull than it will be 

 

with Luhukay in charge.

As I answered your question, dare I ask why you think we will not get promoted but will be dealt with drab football under Luhukay.

[doubleo]

3 hours ago, vulva said:

Comparing Jos to Carlos will be an interesting one in 3 years time, as Jos will need to have achieved the playoffs twice. 

 

With the same squad. 

We're in trouble if we do. Most of 'em will drawing a pension by then.

[Guest Manwithastick]

2 hours ago, Owling Wolfe said:

As I answered your question, dare I ask why you think we will not get promoted but will be dealt with drab football under Luhukay.

 

 

Sure. I believe he will have a transfer budget of zero pounds. That means free transfers only. And not (thankfully!) the high earner, come to the end of a lucrative deal 

 

elsewhere kind. We will not be able to move forwards in terms of meaningful squad refreshment until the likes of Mathias, Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd et al are gone. 

 

And that won't be next season. They'll have to continue to be carried as passengers. Now add in that Hutchinson, Lee, Hooper will still be at the club but will make 

 

little contribution based on fitness history of the past 1-2 seasons. This will force Luhukay's hand in playing Fox, Jones, Nuhiu who aren't good enough. As it stands I see

 

the following as likely to be fit and good enough to be top 4:

 

GK - Westwood/Wildsmith/Dawson

R(W)B - nope. 2 short. We'll go with Palmer and Hunt who weren't good enough this season

CB - Lees. Pudil will be back up. Van Aken doesn't look ready. Vanancio won't be signing for a fee. We are way short here. This will be where free signing wages are spent.

L(W)B - nope. Fox not good enough. Boyd not good enough. Pudil too old. Reach wasted here. But we'll go will Fox/Boyd.

Midfield - Bannan is capable but needs to regain full fitness. Lee, Hutch - not fit enough. Jones, Pelupessy not good enough (but will be what we have). Reach.

Up front - Joao could be anything. Foristieri - a lot is on his shoulders. Hooper - never fit. Fletcher - never fit. Not getting any younger. Nuhiu - not good enough.

 

 

We are paper thin and I don't see that changing. We'll get by with largely the same squad as this year. Which logically sees us have a similar season to this year.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Manwithastick said:

 

 

Sure. I believe he will have a transfer budget of zero pounds. That means free transfers only. And not (thankfully!) the high earner, come to the end of a lucrative deal 

 

elsewhere kind. We will not be able to move forwards in terms of meaningful squad refreshment until the likes of Mathias, Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd et al are gone. 

 

And that won't be next season. They'll have to continue to be carried as passengers. Now add in that Hutchinson, Lee, Hooper will still be at the club but will make 

 

little contribution based on fitness history of the past 1-2 seasons. This will force Luhukay's hand in playing Fox, Jones, Nuhiu who aren't good enough. As it stands I see

 

the following as likely to be fit and good enough to be top 4:

 

GK - Westwood/Wildsmith/Dawson

R(W)B - nope. 2 short. We'll go with Palmer and Hunt who weren't good enough this season

CB - Lees. Pudil will be back up. Van Aken doesn't look ready. Vanancio won't be signing for a fee. We are way short here. This will be where free signing wages are spent.

L(W)B - nope. Fox not good enough. Boyd not good enough. Pudil too old. Reach wasted here. But we'll go will Fox/Boyd.

Midfield - Bannan is capable but needs to regain full fitness. Lee, Hutch - not fit enough. Jones, Pelupessy not good enough (but will be what we have). Reach.

Up front - Joao could be anything. Foristieri - a lot is on his shoulders. Hooper - never fit. Fletcher - never fit. Not getting any younger. Nuhiu - not good enough.

 

 

We are paper thin and I don't see that changing. We'll get by with largely the same squad as this year. Which logically sees us have a similar season to this year.

Just goes to show what Jos as inherited from Carlos.. Going on your above  assessment, I think Jos as done a remarkable job in keeping us up. Blooded a few youngsters, given new confidence to the re called injured players. getting the best out of players who were already binned under Carlos. Not too disheartening for next season. Nuhiu not good enough. have you ever listened to opposing managers view on him and why most teams put at least  2 men on him when he as the ball. Not bad for a player who you have written off. 

[Guest Manwithastick]

8 minutes ago, CLswfc said:

Just goes to show what Jos as inherited from Carlos.. Going on your above  assessment, I think Jos as done a remarkable job in keeping us up. Blooded a few youngsters, given new confidence to the re called injured players. getting the best out of players who were already binned under Carlos. Not too disheartening for next season. Nuhiu not good enough. have you ever listened to opposing managers view on him and why most teams put at least  2 men on him when he as the ball. Not bad for a player who you have written off. 

 

Respectfully I disagree. This squad is a middle third squad - 9th to 16th. And that's where we'll finish the season. If Lee, Hutchinson, Bannan, Hooper, Forestieri all get

 

and stay fit fo0r 40+ games each next season then we might be 5th - 9th. That's far from likely and far from the promotion certainties that so many think we will be. 

 

This season has been awful - both under Carvalhal and Luhukay. I don't see next being much different.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

43 minutes ago, Manwithastick said:

 

 

Sure. I believe he will have a transfer budget of zero pounds. That means free transfers only. And not (thankfully!) the high earner, come to the end of a lucrative deal 

 

elsewhere kind. We will not be able to move forwards in terms of meaningful squad refreshment until the likes of Mathias, Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd et al are gone. 

 

And that won't be next season. They'll have to continue to be carried as passengers. Now add in that Hutchinson, Lee, Hooper will still be at the club but will make 

 

little contribution based on fitness history of the past 1-2 seasons. This will force Luhukay's hand in playing Fox, Jones, Nuhiu who aren't good enough. As it stands I see

 

the following as likely to be fit and good enough to be top 4:

 

GK - Westwood/Wildsmith/Dawson

R(W)B - nope. 2 short. We'll go with Palmer and Hunt who weren't good enough this season

CB - Lees. Pudil will be back up. Van Aken doesn't look ready. Vanancio won't be signing for a fee. We are way short here. This will be where free signing wages are spent.

L(W)B - nope. Fox not good enough. Boyd not good enough. Pudil too old. Reach wasted here. But we'll go will Fox/Boyd.

Midfield - Bannan is capable but needs to regain full fitness. Lee, Hutch - not fit enough. Jones, Pelupessy not good enough (but will be what we have). Reach.

Up front - Joao could be anything. Foristieri - a lot is on his shoulders. Hooper - never fit. Fletcher - never fit. Not getting any younger. Nuhiu - not good enough.

 

 

We are paper thin and I don't see that changing. We'll get by with largely the same squad as this year. Which logically sees us have a similar season to this year.

 

Strong view, based solely upon your assumption that we have zero to spend ?

 

Opinions are what makes a forum, and I disagree with your assessment. Having the likes of Hooper, Hutch, Boyd, Fletcher, Pudil (who I do not view as a back up) and Lee around if fit, and I suppose that is what you are getting at, does make us a stronger team. Add a bit of youth, and the makings are there of a pretty decent squad, one which should be able to be comfortably in the upper echelons of the league.

 

Yes, there are positions that need strengthening, but who is to say that Jos cannot and will not get the best out of what we already have ? Some prudent transfer activity added to what we have and we are not far off, if Jos can get everyone buying into his philosophy.

 

 

 

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

1 minute ago, Manwithastick said:

 

Respectfully I disagree. This squad is a middle third squad - 9th to 16th. And that's where we'll finish the season. If Lee, Hutchinson, Bannan, Hooper, Forestieri all get

 

and stay fit fo0r 40+ games each next season then we might be 5th - 9th. That's far from likely and far from the promotion certainties that so many think we will be. 

 

This season has been awful - both under Carvalhal and Luhukay. I don't see next being much different.

That's the spirit !!!!!!

[Past Member]

1 hour ago, Manwithastick said:

 

 

Sure. I believe he will have a transfer budget of zero pounds. That means free transfers only. And not (thankfully!) the high earner, come to the end of a lucrative deal 

 

elsewhere kind. We will not be able to move forwards in terms of meaningful squad refreshment until the likes of Mathias, Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd et al are gone. 

 

And that won't be next season. They'll have to continue to be carried as passengers. Now add in that Hutchinson, Lee, Hooper will still be at the club but will make 

 

little contribution based on fitness history of the past 1-2 seasons. This will force Luhukay's hand in playing Fox, Jones, Nuhiu who aren't good enough. As it stands I see

 

the following as likely to be fit and good enough to be top 4:

 

GK - Westwood/Wildsmith/Dawson

R(W)B - nope. 2 short. We'll go with Palmer and Hunt who weren't good enough this season

CB - Lees. Pudil will be back up. Van Aken doesn't look ready. Vanancio won't be signing for a fee. We are way short here. This will be where free signing wages are spent.

L(W)B - nope. Fox not good enough. Boyd not good enough. Pudil too old. Reach wasted here. But we'll go will Fox/Boyd.

Midfield - Bannan is capable but needs to regain full fitness. Lee, Hutch - not fit enough. Jones, Pelupessy not good enough (but will be what we have). Reach.

Up front - Joao could be anything. Foristieri - a lot is on his shoulders. Hooper - never fit. Fletcher - never fit. Not getting any younger. Nuhiu - not good enough.

 

 

We are paper thin and I don't see that changing. We'll get by with largely the same squad as this year. Which logically sees us have a similar season to this year.

 

A good realistic assessment.