StudentOwl Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 we need a bare minimum of 2 up all the time at home... there would be VERY few exceptions to that rule... WE NEED SOME PROPER FINISHERS, with movement and a certain ability on the ground and in the air too... "The more I think about it, the more I think a switch to 4-2-3-1 at home (If we must play one up front) " Dont really understand why you've negged me when I gave my answer based entirely on the premise of if we have to play one up front at home. Also, a minimum of two? Does that mean 3- because that essentially implies a 4-3-3 formation which is kinda what we're already doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 We've played just four matches using the new system, a new coach and new players, is it really surprising that we haven't perfected it yet? I do think we always have to have at least one of Lopez or McGugan, or we probably are going to struggle for creativity. We also need the right striker in place, before we can judge whether the system is a success or not. It will take a bit of time before we start to see consistency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffjohnsonmyhero Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 from your name, and posts in the past i've read, i gather you and i started watching wednesday about the same time... we've seen all the 'smoke n' mirrors', all 'the emperor's new clothes' etc. before, at hillsborough and around the divisions too... i can fully understand the younger element 'pullin' themselves off over 'sexy football', and conservations and postings where they can use the term "BARCA", but... you and i agree, yesterday looked like a gray side on the field, but with more panic in defence... by the end of last season we needed to secure mcgugan, add someone to m/f who could put the type of ball through that the ipswich player split our defence with for their equaliser, and 2 proper forwards... i honestly believe with those additions we'd have been in with a hell of a chance of making the play off's... instead, we've fetched a ball playing coach in, who's resulted in humping it... The thing for me is we really have some quality players ,Try a 4-4-2 ,We have players who would thrive on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The thing for me is we really have some quality players ,Try a 4-4-2 ,We have players who would thrive on it. I don't overly disagree with that. The disadvantage is that it's much harder to play the sexy continental football with 4-4-2 over 4-3-3 because you don't have players filling the gaps between the lines to play short passes to. That said, I'd hardly complain if we saw a footballing style similar to the more successful Man United teams over the years playing 4-4-2 - that's hardly a far cry from the attractive footballing philosophy we're trying to implement! Playing Devil's Advocate here, would you want to see a 4-4-2 both at home and away, or just at home and stick with what's perhaps a slightly more solid 4-3-3/4-5-1 away from home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 It is not 433 that is the issue it is the fact that we are choosing to back off into our own half to defend. This means the midfield 3 and 2 widemen are miles away from the lone striker. When the ball goes up to him nobody can make the ground up to support him. We need to play much further up the pitch, we need the widemen making more runs like Matias did for the goal and dropping inside sometimes so that the full backs move into space and bomb forward. At the moment we are playing 433 the same as we did under Gray. Defensively with an isolated striker. We are making Matias look Maghomaesque for much of the game when we have seen what he can do if he gets in the final third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Looking at all the games, it's not quite firing yet, but it's turning out how I expected it to. In this system, a lot of the goals will come from the wide attackers and midfield. We've scored 9 goals in five matches, including the four against Mansfield. Only one of them has been scored by a striker, Joao, who got one of the goals against Mansfield. Four have come from the wide attackers, three from midfield, and the other coming from a defender. In all honesty, I can't remember a shot on target, apart from Joao's goal, from either of the central strikers. Hopefully we can find a striker who is capable of leading the line, but can deliver goals too. That's not really knocking Nuhiu, or Joao, who both aren't ready for the role, because it will be the job of the central striker to bring the others into play. It isn't yet working perfectly, and you wouldn't expect it to be, but you can already see the area where the goals will come from. Apart from his wonder goal on Saturday, Matias could have had five already this season. It will come of course, but this next signing will be so important to how we want the team to play. We have to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Agree with those who mention possibly looking at 4231. Could be the forward. Take McGugan, do we want him in midfield as part of a 3 man midfield or would we rather see him playing just off the main striker, where he will more likely chip in with more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townend_owl Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 First couple of games we looked incredibly dangerous. The last 2 games the strikers haven't really been involved in the games at all. Like any system, it will work well in some games and not so much in others. we need to rely more on our midfielders if it's going to work. Look at the goalscorers so far: Lees, McGugan, Wallace, Semedo, Joao, Lee, Sougou x 2, Matias That's an upside for sure. Goals from all over the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Agree with those who mention possibly looking at 4231. Could be the forward. Take McGugan, do we want him in midfield as part of a 3 man midfield or would we rather see him playing just off the main striker, where he will more likely chip in with more goals. Carlos says yes to both. Clever Carlos has him in midfield when we're defending and playing up towards the main striker when we're pressing / attacking. This focus on formation ignores an awful lot of what's going on imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Carlos says yes to both. Clever Carlos has him in midfield when we're defending and playing up towards the main striker when we're pressing / attacking. This focus on formation ignores an awful lot of what's going on imo. Yep, fair dos. Things will no doubt improve with each game as the players get used to the new system. Hopefully we will start seeing everything slowly click in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fedor Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 If we don't have the right players to play the system, then maybe we need to change the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Toni Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Changing the system and pretty much the whole footballing philosophy that the club was used to under Gray is not going to happen overnight. I actually think that the systems does work with the right players but maybe CC sees that he's not quite got the right players in a couple of positions and that's why we've adopted a more defensive approach for the time being. Hopefully we will see team flourish and be more attacking with a bit more flair and unpredictability towards the latter part of September. If not, the knives may start to come out a little but it's still too soon yet for me to be too anti CC or his methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't really care what the system I'd just like to see the ball in their box a bit more than I see it in ours I'd like to see the oppositon keeper looking like he's got shell shock with having to throw himself around trying to stop a constant barrage of clever dinks, curlers to the far top corner , rasping drives and thunderous vollies cannonball first timers, bullet headers and drilled half vollies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 So if Hooper signs are we thinking 442? Or 4132? .............westwood............ Hunt.....Lees.....Sasso...Wiggins Sougou.McGugan.Hutch.Matias .............Hooper...Joao............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 No. 4-1-4-1. When will you lot learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 No. 4-1-4-1. When will you lot learn? I'm reacting to Carlos telling Staton today that he would play two up front if he had the players to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 So if Hooper signs are we thinking 442? Or 4132? .............westwood............ Hunt.....Lees.....Sasso...Wiggins Sougou.McGugan.Hutch.Matias .............Hooper...Joao............. Was just going to post something similar Can't see us doing a classic 442, so maybe 4132, or even a 41212. The problem being, most of the players we've bought, have been bought to fit a 433 system. Don't think Matias could operate in a 442 system, his game is all about coming through a more central area. Also, who would the partner for Hooper be? CC says Joao isn't going to be rushed, he didn't say he isn't ready to play up on his own. Presumably he still doesn't wish to rush him, so maybe it will be Nuhiu and Hooper. The signing poses as many questions as it does answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm reacting to Carlos telling Staton today that he would play two up front if he had the players to do so Yeah, but I'm not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yeah, but I'm not convinced. Me neither really, and as Gurujuan says we have players to play 433, too many central midfielders and outside forwards. The below would be quite an attack minded team... .............westwood............ Hunt.....Lees.....Sasso...Wiggins ...................hutch.................. Sougou.....McGugan.....Matias .............Hooper...Joao............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think with Hooper, we'll have an upgrade on Stevie May, but a similar problem of how best to incorporate him into the starting line up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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