torryowl Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 The lot that came into academy 3 years ago was deemed as possibly the most talented lot we ever had there. What McAuley did (or didn't) achieve with them is a massive fail by whom ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) by whom ..... Newton, Oliver, Palmer, Cottingham, Kirkland, Barnett, Hall and Modest. Edited April 22, 2011 by malek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Newton, Oliver, Palmer, Cottingham, Kirkland, Barnett, Hall and Modest. yes but who deemed them to be the best we have had for a long time ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 yes but who deemed them to be the best we have had for a long time ....... McAuley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest foreverSWFC Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Coke's our best mildfielder. Nowhere near are best midfielder, has an atendancy to be lazy, switches off in games, poor positional sense and poor decision making. Good start to the season but i rate Miller, Palmer and even O'Connor above him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomTownOwls Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 The first time all season we have a settled team and look like winning matches and people want the team to be changed. I want Megson to pick our strongest team and win the last four matches. Palmer should get in the team when he deserves it on merit and not before. I have no idea whether that is now or not but unless you have been watching training sessions and reserve games neither do all of you. Megson does and he will make the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomTownOwls Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Coke's our best mildfielder. I thought you went to the games. He is like a central midfield version of JJ. Great on his day but usually flatters to deceive. You can't get away with 2 of your 4 midfield players being like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Baron Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 The lot that came into academy 3 years ago was deemed as possibly the most talented lot we ever had there Newton, Oliver, Palmer, Cottingham, Kirkland, Barnett, Hall and Modest. I think I prefer these to yours Malek! Bolder, Sterland, Smith, Shirtliff, Taylor, Williamson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Why would you play Coke then? The first couple of games he played, apart, he's strolled about as though tomorrow will do. We saw the best of him last August, and it'll be a miracle if he ever reproduces that form again. He thinks he's better than he actually is. Plenty of times this season he has been one of the few midfielders who has tried to drive us forwards with the ball at his feet. His problem is as you say he dissapears and goes quiet, which is frustrating as if he remained switched on he'd be a hell of a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Just a thought Most people think that Palmer is the future and is going to do great things for the Owls. But what if somebody posted the usual could he do a job for us thread saying they'd heard of this young lad who plays midfield and is useful, thing is he hasn't played many games for his lge 1 side. what would the reaction be on here how long would it be for the not good enough, should be looking for better posts started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I would say that the few that have been brought through with our previous complete lack of funds/neglect in the youth side and the neglect/non existence of a scouting network should result in praise for McAuley. It can't be easy doing a job when you don't have the resources to do it, a bit like doing a job in I.T. without a computer or network available to you. The results achieved so far can only be expected and I think it would be fairer waiting until the infrastructure at the club has been reformed before we overly criticise his performance. If the academy isn't producing then it's the guy who is head of academy who gets the balme - satnds to reason If what he's getting at 16 years of age oisn't good enough then he needs to work our plans and targets for his coaches - and if they don't shape up then get better coaches A good academy manager needs to manage every situation - and know every player in his academy so if highly rated Luke at u11 level starts slipping backwards then the reasons why need to be known - same for all players - that way you can go some way to identifying problems and bottlenecks in the system Do we have enough contact coaching time? Can it be improved? Is there a plan for the coaches to follow? Is everybody on the same page regarding their sessions and targets? As i said before - good staff define a good academy - money can help obviously but never replace that truism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 +1 again Scram, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoster Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Been reading your comments on academy football Scram. Always interesting. Don't know what you mean by 'target setting' for coaches tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Why are people starting to bash McAuley all of a sudden? I thought he was the best thing since sliced bread a year ago? Must be his turn mate. Seems everyone from the tea lady upwards has been blamed for this club's demise. And yet some elderly, clueless, muppets continue to sip tea and eat prawn sandwiches in the members' enclosure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 But back to Kivo's post. I agree. This is a young lad with a future in the game. What he needs to do now is to get an opportunity to cement a place in the team. In order to achieve this, he needs to maintain high standards in each and every game he gets selected, he can't afford to be inconsistent or he'll not make the breakthrough to the next stage of his career. This, in a nutshell, is where Liam Palmer is at. Can he take this opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Been reading your comments on academy football Scram. Always interesting. Don't know what you mean by 'target setting' for coaches tho? It's generally related to player development - think of it as a pyramid at the top of which are the players who make it through to the 1st team. The base of the pyramid will be the first intake at u9 say Each segment of the pyramid is represented by the amount of players that get retained - so say the target for the u14 coach is to bring at least 10 (whatever - or a percentage) of the players through to the next phase of the academy - u15/16 - and to get 3 different players (for eg) to be able to play up an age group during the course of the season At every level the coach has his targets to hit - it may also be related to more subjective targets like player improvement - and these can be assessed against a set of criteria Ifa there seems to be a bottleneck where the drop out is consistently higher than expected then something is going wrong at that age group and it needs rectifying - but by having targets it can be instantly seen where the problems lie. I know you watch(ed) academy football so you will yourself have seen how some players seen to go backwards - sometimes rapidly - now there can be a whole host of reasons for this - usual things are a player playing for a new contract plays through an injury he hasn't disclosed because he's frightened to miss matches - problems at home - bullying - good old growth related changes - or even the player has just reached his ceiling and stopped developing while others are moving on apace. So there are quite a lot of complexities to throw into the mix it's also why it helps to have a coordinated coaching calender - so the lads right through the age groups are getting consistency of coaching - within that of course there has to be individuality especially at matches - as one of the big parts of player development is problem solving - but then a good coach will set his players individual targets that they should try to meet whilst not straying from the demands of the team - say a central midfielder in a 3 has to receive the ball and switch play 3 times each half (this will be something they have been doing in training) - but obviously the times when the player does it have to be right - so the player has to play the game as it comes and within that find the right opportunity to practice for real what he has been working towards in coaching - it can't always happen of course because it relies on lots of factors rather than just the midfielder receiving the ball - but it's something to work towards etc. Targetting and monitoring is a way in which the effectiveness of the coaches and method can be assessed in a pseudo objective manner - if you don't set targets and objectives then there is nothing to gauge performance against. Edited April 23, 2011 by scram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoster Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 It's generally related to player development - think of it as a pyramid at the top of which are the players who make it through to the 1st team. The base of the pyramid will be the first intake at u9 say Each segment of the pyramid is represented by the amount of players that get retained - so say the target for the u14 coach is to bring at least 10 (whatever - or a percentage) of the players through to the next phase of the academy - u15/16 - and to get 3 different players (for eg) to be able to play up an age group during the course of the season At every level the coach has his targets to hit - it may also be related to more subjective targets like player improvement - and these can be assessed against a set of criteria Ifa there seems to be a bottleneck where the drop out is consistently higher than expected then something is going wrong at that age group and it needs rectifying - but by having targets it can be instantly seen where the problems lie. I know you watch(ed) academy football so you will yourself have seen how some players seen to go backwards - sometimes rapidly - now there can be a whole host of reasons for this - usual things are a player playing for a new contract plays through an injury he hasn't disclosed because he's frightened to miss matches - problems at home - bullying - good old growth related changes - or even the player has just reached his ceiling and stopped developing while others are moving on apace. So there are quite a lot of complexities to throw into the mix it's also why it helps to have a coordinated coaching calender - so the lads right through the age groups are getting consistency of coaching - within that of course there has to be individuality especially at matches - as one of the big parts of player development is problem solving - but then a good coach will set his players individual targets that they should try to meet whilst not straying from the demands of the team - say a central midfielder in a 3 has to receive the ball and switch play 3 times each half (this will be something they have been doing in training) - but obviously the times when the player does it have to be right - so the player has to play the game as it comes and within that find the right opportunity to practice for real what he has been working towards in coaching - it can't always happen of course because it relies on lots of factors rather than just the midfielder receiving the ball - but it's something to work towards etc. Targetting and monitoring is a way in which the effectiveness of the coaches and method can be assessed in a pseudo objective manner - if you don't set targets and objectives then there is nothing to gauge performance against. thanks for such a thorough and interesting reply mate. you're right in recalling that i did attend academy games in the past but not anymore. the reasons for that are: a) general falling out of love with football due to disenchantment with the hated Premiership and venal modern footballer b) the DREADFUL standard of our academy sides c) the DREADFUL standard of most academy sides in general i used to go along with me dad and the extraordinary thing was the incredible (and depressing) similarity between the teams at U-18 level. Big, aggressive, one-paced. Big goal kicks, hunt the second ball, get in the mixer. Full-backs belting it down the channels, fit forwards chasing it. No flair and very little technical ability. Lads and teams that had it shone out. The two best sides i ever saw were Southampton about four or five years ago (superb in every dept) and Middlesbro around the same time. Far better sides than those of the so-called big Four that came to town. the last time i saw our academywas when palmer, modest and cottingham were in the U-16s. I hadnt heard of any of them apart from modest but we wandered up to the top pitch to watch.There were three or four others who looked like real players too. Modest looked terrific, cottingham very classy and full of energy (me dad said he reminded him of ronnie whelan) and palmer (a striker at the time) was all pace, skill and creativity. I thought they all had a decent chance of progressng to the first team subject to the usual caveats regarding women and booze, injuries etc etc So i am very depressed to see that only palmer appears to have a future in the game. What's gone wrong? i honestly wouldnt know but there's a real dropout in performance, to borrow a concept from your reply above, going on and i think macauley should be asked to explain why that is. there might be a very genuine reason for it but who knows? I do think that the academy very clearly needs a massive overhaul and an injection of cash, no doubt. i'd love to know the secret of boro and southampton's success. any ideas? is it largely due to having very good staff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Talented areas most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamwestsleftear Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Agree with you kivo, would like to see Coke and Palmer in the middle. I think there energy and pace may give us something different in the middle! guys,just as you all stupidly said that coke/miller in the middle was the way to go,, coke/palmer,would be rubbish no professional manager is going to play to offensive midfielders in the middle not irvine,not megson,,the reason being is that,,its unbalanced as it happens i agree that palmers should be given more game time,and im surprised that megosn hasnt used him more in light of his good cup preformance coke has been frozen out under megson so dont expect to see him,, id go o"conner/palmer,,,it atually has balence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamwestsleftear Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 thanks for such a thorough and interesting reply mate. you're right in recalling that i did attend academy games in the past but not anymore. the reasons for that are: a) general falling out of love with football due to disenchantment with the hated Premiership and venal modern footballer b) the DREADFUL standard of our academy sides c) the DREADFUL standard of most academy sides in general i used to go along with me dad and the extraordinary thing was the incredible (and depressing) similarity between the teams at U-18 level. Big, aggressive, one-paced. Big goal kicks, hunt the second ball, get in the mixer. Full-backs belting it down the channels, fit forwards chasing it. No flair and very little technical ability. Lads and teams that had it shone out. The two best sides i ever saw were Southampton about four or five years ago (superb in every dept) and Middlesbro around the same time. Far better sides than those of the so-called big Four that came to town. the last time i saw our academywas when palmer, modest and cottingham were in the U-16s. I hadnt heard of any of them apart from modest but we wandered up to the top pitch to watch.There were three or four others who looked like real players too. Modest looked terrific, cottingham very classy and full of energy (me dad said he reminded him of ronnie whelan) and palmer (a striker at the time) was all pace, skill and creativity. I thought they all had a decent chance of progressng to the first team subject to the usual caveats regarding women and booze, injuries etc etc So i am very depressed to see that only palmer appears to have a future in the game. What's gone wrong? i honestly wouldnt know but there's a real dropout in performance, to borrow a concept from your reply above, going on and i think macauley should be asked to explain why that is. there might be a very genuine reason for it but who knows? I do think that the academy very clearly needs a massive overhaul and an injection of cash, no doubt. i'd love to know the secret of boro and southampton's success. any ideas? is it largely due to having very good staff? whatsa gone wrong? well there was this board that starved us of cash for 15 years, of course we arnt atttracting enough good young players now we have money ,in 5/10 years,we might start producing but you must be patient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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