Liam Palmer

[aussieowl87]

I'm an acacemy coach over in Oz, but trying to get the parents to shift from the "win at all costs" mentality is a difficult one, particularly in this country.

I coach Under 12's, and the club hasn't specified a target, but as a general goal my aim is to develop the players' technical ability and game speed so they are able to play under 13's academy football. sounds pretty simple, right?

It becomes difficult when you come up against teams who are your archetypal "kick and rush" footballers. It takes time to mould and develop a group to put the blinkers on and not become involved in any of that - focus on playing out from the back, working midfield triangles and knowing shape on and off the ball, say.

I'm not sure about the culture of youth football in England, but there are very few Academies, even high-level ones, over here who don't have some results-based expectation there. I've heard of teams as young as Under 13's going through 3 or 4 coaches a season purely because the results haven't "fitted the club's image". Frankly it's ridiculous.

This is basically a long way round to back Scram up. Targets are important because it's something that's tangible. Kids don't get signed based on how many goals they've scored come the end of the season, they get signed when they trial again and they've made enough technical progression to be an Academy footballer again but a year older.

Over here our Football Association have developed a "footballing curriculum". Something I'm a little dubious of, and I'm far from labelling it foolproof, but basically it's something for Academy clubs to follow. They suggest activities and a program at each age group aimed to develop kids to play technically sound football in the "national" [aka Dutch] 4-3-3 system. Lots of 7v7 stuff in training, technical work is all game-based, etc.

I think in terms of programming, it's good having a national body providing a recommendation, then individual clubs tweaking to take what they want out of it for their players, then coaches doing the same. But again, the targets have to be there.

Really not sure where this post has gone in terms of substance, not sure whether I'm pro-McAuley or anti-McAuley, but irrespective of finances you can still develop a player providing there is something in place to support them as I've listed above.

[Last_Great_Hope]

Reasons not to do this:

a) We're playing teams scrapping for relegation, it's unprofessional and unfair on their rivals

b) We need as many points as we can get

c) JOC has rediscovered form and got his place back - totally unfair on him

I like Palmer but he should get in on merit or not at all

Palmer should get in on merit, but you've listed 3 reasons why he shouldn't play that have nothing to do with Liam Palmer!

The only reason that should matter - he's played well when called upon this season, and has the potential to be better than all the other centre mids we currently have, so we have to take the opportunities to give him the game time that he needs to keep on improving- not left to rot in the reserves!

[malek]

So you're coming round to my way of thinking at last

True And now it seems that we can finally afford to bring in a "whole" player, rather than certain aspect of role he can fill.

Malek, while I agree to a certain extent, how often do you recall some of the best midfielders ever adopting much by the way of an all round game?

I can't remember Sheridan making a vast amount of tackles, or Danny Wilson making many defence splitting passes, they were both good at what they were good at, and no one tried to change their game.

Edit: Both were good at the basic stuff though - , which is something we seem to lack with our current crop of midfield players, going back quite some time! Yes, Sheridan COULD tackle if the need arose but rarely did, and Wilson did sometimes turn playmaker, although very very infrequently.

Very true mate, but that was almost 20 years ago, and football changed since then. Why do you think Shezza's top level career ended while he was relatively young in his early 30's ? Certainly not because he couldn't play any more, because role he played became obsolete, and no team at such level wanted to mold their tactic around him, and carry him.

[Guest foreverSWFC]

I don't understand why people are blaming McAuley.

Alot of the youg kids who first come into the academy look good at that level, E.G Modest, Barnett, Cottingham. Sure they haven't developed, neither have many other young players at clubs. I know a lad who was at Manchester United until he was 20. He went to play for Royal Antwerp in Belgium, he went on loan to many Championship and league one clubs, scored for fun in the academy and reserves, yet only 6 months ago he left a team in the conference north because he just couldn't get in. Now i talked to him a few weeks back, and he said the majority of players in that academy group with him have either stopped playing or are playing in the non-league, the only one who really made it i think was Darren Fletcher.

Does this make the Manchester United academy coaches useless? No it means some players promise much at a young age but cannot cope when the take the step up. This is probably the case for alot of our academy players. Modest for example, he is lightning quick and strong for a 16 year old he scores alot of goals, fast forward a couple of years later he struggles to play for Darlington and is yet to score in the conference. Trust me this happens at so many clubs, and people should stop blaming McAuley, since he has been our acsdemy coach we have turned Wood, Spurr, Beevers, McAllister, N. Wood, Boden, Palmer, McArdle, O'Donnell. Jameson and i'm sure there is more pro footballers.

Before you get jealous of Sheff United for producing young players, Kyle Walker is there only big success. Jordan Slew and Harry Maguire have just come on the scene, fair enough they may have started well and could become good footballers, but do you remember Owen Morrison? Came on for us in the Premier League scored a few goals, we rated him so highly. I'd like to know where he is now. Steven Haslam, played along the likes of Michael Owen in the England youth set up- now playing for Hartlepool united in league one.

[scram]

I don't understand why people are blaming McAuley.

Alot of the youg kids who first come into the academy look good at that level, E.G Modest, Barnett, Cottingham. Sure they haven't developed, neither have many other young players at clubs. I know a lad who was at Manchester United until he was 20. He went to play for Royal Antwerp in Belgium, he went on loan to many Championship and league one clubs, scored for fun in the academy and reserves, yet only 6 months ago he left a team in the conference north because he just couldn't get in. Now i talked to him a few weeks back, and he said the majority of players in that academy group with him have either stopped playing or are playing in the non-league, the only one who really made it i think was Darren Fletcher.

Does this make the Manchester United academy coaches useless?

What?

Obviously players aren't gonna make the grade at any club - but look how many players Man U have historically (and still) produce for themselves - they rarely take the field without a clutch of homegrown players and believe me it's ridiculously easier to churn out a league 1-2 player than it is a CL winner

The highest placed player to come from our academy for years is currently not able to get a regular place in a poor championship team - whilst the other players scattered around the arse end of pro football speaks volumes about the lack of quailtiy we have produced.

What really rumbleing irks me is looking at the pigs acaemy website and seeing Mark Smith's grinning face staring back at me - not only a Wednesday legend who had proved himself as a youth coach - but one that came back here in that capacity and we chucked him out again!

The reason why MaCauley os getting some flack is because it's his gig - he cannot be divorced rom the failings in that department expecially when simililarly resourced clubs are massively outperforming us in that area. The buck stops at the top

[Hawkeye]

Reasons not to do this:

a) We're playing teams scrapping for relegation, it's unprofessional and unfair on their rivals

b) We need as many points as we can get

c) JOC has rediscovered form and got his place back - totally unfair on him

I like Palmer but he should get in on merit or not at all

not sure i totally agree with the reasons.

Im sure he already knows in his own mind who is going to be retained, but there are players there who will be hoping for the chance to earn a contract - including mellor - and they will want to be out there playing.

still, cant see the harm in giving palmer a bit of game time.

[Guest foreverSWFC]

What?

Obviously players aren't gonna make the grade at any club - but look how many players Man U have historically (and still) produce for themselves - they rarely take the field without a clutch of homegrown players and believe me it's ridiculously easier to churn out a league 1-2 player than it is a CL winner

The highest placed player to come from our academy for years is currently not able to get a regular place in a poor championship team - whilst the other players scattered around the arse end of pro football speaks volumes about the lack of quailtiy we have produced.

What really rumbleing irks me is looking at the pigs acaemy website and seeing Mark Smith's grinning face staring back at me - not only a Wednesday legend who had proved himself as a youth coach - but one that came back here in that capacity and we chucked him out again!

The reason why MaCauley os getting some flack is because it's his gig - he cannot be divorced rom the failings in that department expecially when simililarly resourced clubs are massively outperforming us in that area. The buck stops at the top

Yes, but their are so many clubs i bet around our budget in recent years and around our standard who to have not produced good young players. Unless you are a top team who can afford to coach players to become good future players, a team like us are going to struggle to do that. The best young l players in the country at this moment are snapped up by Premier league teams at an early age, therfore a club like us are not going to get good players coming through the academy, it really is as simple as that.

[darra]

I don't understand why people are blaming McAuley.

Alot of the youg kids who first come into the academy look good at that level, E.G Modest, Barnett, Cottingham. Sure they haven't developed, neither have many other young players at clubs. I know a lad who was at Manchester United until he was 20. He went to play for Royal Antwerp in Belgium, he went on loan to many Championship and league one clubs, scored for fun in the academy and reserves, yet only 6 months ago he left a team in the conference north because he just couldn't get in. Now i talked to him a few weeks back, and he said the majority of players in that academy group with him have either stopped playing or are playing in the non-league, the only one who really made it i think was Darren Fletcher.

Does this make the Manchester United academy coaches useless? No it means some players promise much at a young age but cannot cope when the take the step up. This is probably the case for alot of our academy players. Modest for example, he is lightning quick and strong for a 16 year old he scores alot of goals, fast forward a couple of years later he struggles to play for Darlington and is yet to score in the conference. Trust me this happens at so many clubs, and people should stop blaming McAuley, since he has been our acsdemy coach we have turned Wood, Spurr, Beevers, McAllister, N. Wood, Boden, Palmer, McArdle, O'Donnell. Jameson and i'm sure there is more pro footballers.

Before you get jealous of Sheff United for producing young players, Kyle Walker is there only big success. Jordan Slew and Harry Maguire have just come on the scene, fair enough they may have started well and could become good footballers, but do you remember Owen Morrison? Came on for us in the Premier League scored a few goals, we rated him so highly. I'd like to know where he is now. Steven Haslam, played along the likes of Michael Owen in the England youth set up- now playing for Hartlepool united in league one.

On Saturday piggy Edwards said the same about these two. As he said it's great they are doing it now, whether they can do it over a season is a big ask for two young lads and needs doing carefully.

As for Haslam he captained that England side.

Edited April 26, 2011 by darra

[scram]

Yes, but their are so many clubs i bet around our budget in recent years and around our standard who to have not produced good young players. Unless you are a top team who can afford to coach players to become good future players, a team like us are going to struggle to do that. The best young l players in the country at this moment are snapped up by Premier league teams at an early age, therfore a club like us are not going to get good players coming through the academy, it really is as simple as that.

It's not as simple as that because many highly rated youg players aren't going to the top clubs any more because of the huge attrition rate

If an academy recruitment coach can say to a parent "this is our current 1st team squad and 12 of them came through our academy while none at Spurs did, 1 at Chelsea did whatever" then the parents are interested and they instantly see the attraction - if you hve a poor academy with poor 1st team throughput then there is nothing to offer the kids that appeals

The trick is to 1, be inventive and innovative...2, do some legwork........3, stop making lame excuses