FGR, a progressive club

[SiJ]

League One is a far higher standard than the WSL. 

 

Much better standard of football and it is a much bigger division in terms of the overall appeal. 

 

The idea that the AFC Wimbledon job was a step down for Emma Hayes is ludicrous. 

 

By such logic, Emma Hayes taking the Sheffield Wednesday job last season would be a step down for her. 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by SiJ

[sheffield_dave]

2 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

Be interesting to see how she gets along at FGR.

 

 

It will, but with the caveat that FGR is probably the perfect landing spot for this "experiment" and that in reality, it probably doesn't matter that much either way.

 

They're a club that rarely do things by the norm in terms of football standards and are also massively punching above their weight, perhaps even by being a L2 club.

 

Maybe she massively exceeds and breaks down a barrier. I think more likely is that it isn't particularly successful and we all just move on from the latest move by the Gloucestershire club with the vegan chairman who wants to build a wooden stadium.

[Putney]

What did Emma Hayes actually say that was insulting to AFCW and where did she say AFCW/L1 was a step down?

 

No one here is saying the women’s game is on par as though WSL = PL, it’s a different game and the enemy is those who get all hot and bothered thinking they need to defend the men’s honour as those it’s some personal affront to them. A complete shock with football fans I know.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/12206672/emma-hayes-shuts-down-afc-wimbledon-rumours-and-will-stay-on-as-chelsea-women-boss-in-wsl

 

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11668/12208230/emma-hayes-clarifies-afc-wimbledon-comments-no-amount-of-money-is-going-to-tempt-me-away-from-chelsea
 

 

 

[Putney]

The gulf in quality between your Chelsea women’s and second tier women’s side is going to be rather stark, no different to the predicament of the international game. That’s an issue that the women’s game needs to solve but it isn’t a reflection of the level at very top of the Women’s game which Hayes is at.

[scram]

Yeah - the team i was at played Arsenal (full first team) in the Cup

 

Lost 5-0

 

There is a big gulf between the 2 divisions undoubtedly

 

That still doesn't mean hayes is a manager that operates adjacent to the PL - she absolutely doesn't and AFC Wimbledon would absolutely rinse her team

 

It's not a slight to point out facts

 

It's noopt about protecting fragile egos - that is so absurd - there is no need to even go there because the gulf between the levels is so marked

 

But the 2 tiers of the game should be kept separate - don't compare them and don't conglomerate internationals into one - for eg Jill Scott on the verge of becoming Englands leading scorer

 

It's not done in other sports - people don't compare Sabalenka with Djokovic for eg - nor how many titles they have etc etc

[duncanidaho]

9 hours ago, fudge27 said:

For the sake of pointing things out, just because people quite rightly say women's football isn't the same quality as men's football, to then label them sexist is the height of idiocy. 

 

As bad as the idiots who say women can't offer analysis on the men's game

 

i am not saying that womens football is the same quality as mens football, it isn't for many reasons not only because of physiological differences.

this discussion isn't about the football played or the skills of players.  this is about saying that a top woman manager could manage a mens team.

i don't know, but i would guess the uefa coaches badges are the same unless anyone can prove different.  therefore there is no reason why a qualified womens coach shouldn't be able to manage a male side.

 

i am also saying that hayes managing a side in the top tier of womens football and also in the top continental competition is comparable to the male equivalent.  the major difference being the money and exposure between the mens game and the womens game.

 

otherwise you are saying that women shouldn't be able to manage men in any industry, sport or otherwise.

[duncanidaho]

3 hours ago, scram said:

Yeah - the team i was at played Arsenal (full first team) in the Cup

 

Lost 5-0

 

There is a big gulf between the 2 divisions undoubtedly

 

That still doesn't mean hayes is a manager that operates adjacent to the PL - she absolutely doesn't and AFC Wimbledon would absolutely rinse her team

 

It's not a slight to point out facts

 

It's noopt about protecting fragile egos - that is so absurd - there is no need to even go there because the gulf between the levels is so marked

 

But the 2 tiers of the game should be kept separate - don't compare them and don't conglomerate internationals into one - for eg Jill Scott on the verge of becoming Englands leading scorer

 

It's not done in other sports - people don't compare Sabalenka with Djokovic for eg - nor how many titles they have etc etc

there you go again using the argument about a womens team playing a mens team.   this has nothing to do with the discussion about women coaches in the mens game

[scram]

3 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

there you go again using the argument about a womens team playing a mens team.   this has nothing to do with the discussion about women coaches in the mens game

 

 

Because you said Dons are a lower level - but they are a way better team and the standard they play at is way higher so what are you basing it on?

 

 

7 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

i am also saying that hayes managing a side in the top tier of womens football and also in the top continental competition is comparable to the male equivalent.  

 

 

 

Beyond ludicrous to suggest that managing in the WPL and WCL is the same as managing in the PL and CL

[duncanidaho]

17 hours ago, scram said:

This is ludicrous

 

It is a fact that women's football is not as important or as popular as men's football. Without the huge support from the clubs women's football would not exist in anything like the capacity it now does. It doesn't pay its way and is poorly supported outside of a few novelty games in the main stadiums

 

I didn't say she should feel honoured to be offered the Dons job - I said she should not have disrespected their approach. 

 

Professional mens football is a huge step up from women's football - it just is

 

It's not sexist to point these things out

look up the history of womens football and see why they have had to start again from the beginning.

had the FA not outlawed womens football from professional mens grounds it would've been interesting to see where they would be now with similar investment.

[duncanidaho]

5 hours ago, scram said:

I'm a big advocate of the womens game

yep, you sound it...

[fudge27]

10 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

i am not saying that womens football is the same quality as mens football, it isn't for many reasons not only because of physiological differences.

this discussion isn't about the football played or the skills of players.  this is about saying that a top woman manager could manage a mens team.

i don't know, but i would guess the uefa coaches badges are the same unless anyone can prove different.  therefore there is no reason why a qualified womens coach shouldn't be able to manage a male side.

 

i am also saying that hayes managing a side in the top tier of womens football and also in the top continental competition is comparable to the male equivalent.  the major difference being the money and exposure between the mens game and the womens game.

 

otherwise you are saying that women shouldn't be able to manage men in any industry, sport or otherwise.

I don't understand your point then? 

 

You have been downright offensive to a couple of posters who are supporters of the woman's game for pointing of that Emma Hayes being offered the Wimbledon job was actually an advancement of her career and a chance to really advance the role of women in men's sports. 

 

There's maybe been one or two ignorant posts about woman, but most have only compared the level not the capability of women to perform the job, and cited other industries where woman are executives or managers or in advanced positions, however, when it comes to football the top level of the women's game is simply a great distance of the men's league for a pleothra of reasons 

[Grizzly Bizzly]

12 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

i am not saying that womens football is the same quality as mens football, it isn't for many reasons not only because of physiological differences.

this discussion isn't about the football played or the skills of players.  this is about saying that a top woman manager could manage a mens team.

i don't know, but i would guess the uefa coaches badges are the same unless anyone can prove different.  therefore there is no reason why a qualified womens coach shouldn't be able to manage a male side.

 

i am also saying that hayes managing a side in the top tier of womens football and also in the top continental competition is comparable to the male equivalent.  the major difference being the money and exposure between the mens game and the womens game.

 

otherwise you are saying that women shouldn't be able to manage men in any industry, sport or otherwise.

 

You seem to have misread every post.

 

Nobody has said that a woman can't manage a men's team,Of course they could 

 

What people have issue with is that you insist that the WSL is a higher level than League 1 which is ludicrous.

[scram]

3 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

look up the history of womens football and see why they have had to start again from the beginning.

had the FA not outlawed womens football from professional mens grounds it would've been interesting to see where they would be now with similar investment.

 

 

Maybe womens football would be the popular sport and way bigger than mens football - we don't know cos it didn't happen

 

But thats not what this debate is about - its about the here and now

 

Incidentally i have a friend who worked with Emma Hayes at Chelsea - said he had a decent relationship with her until he went to her a with a serious issue - and she shunned it and him and he was forced out of the club

[scram]

1 minute ago, duncanidaho said:

yep, you sound it...

 

 

I've given a lot to the game and that can be vouched for by dozens of the players and people within the womens game

 

But that doesn't alter facts

[Ellis Rimmer]

41 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

i am not saying that womens football is the same quality as mens football, it isn't for many reasons not only because of physiological differences.

this discussion isn't about the football played or the skills of players.  this is about saying that a top woman manager could manage a mens team.

i don't know, but i would guess the uefa coaches badges are the same unless anyone can prove different.  therefore there is no reason why a qualified womens coach shouldn't be able to manage a male side.

 

i am also saying that hayes managing a side in the top tier of womens football and also in the top continental competition is comparable to the male equivalent.  the major difference being the money and exposure between the mens game and the womens game.

 

otherwise you are saying that women shouldn't be able to manage men in any industry, sport or otherwise.

You are missing the point a million times over, the WSL or champions league is not comparable to the male equivalent other than in name.

 

 This is the type of team Hayes comes up against

 

It would be insane if the Zurich u15 boys manager would be disrespected to be offered the Wimbledon job. 

[duncanidaho]

2 hours ago, fudge27 said:

I don't understand your point then? 

 

You have been downright offensive to a couple of posters who are supporters of the woman's game for pointing of that Emma Hayes being offered the Wimbledon job was actually an advancement of her career and a chance to really advance the role of women in men's sports. 

 

There's maybe been one or two ignorant posts about woman, but most have only compared the level not the capability of women to perform the job, and cited other industries where woman are executives or managers or in advanced positions, however, when it comes to football the top level of the women's game is simply a great distance of the men's league for a pleothra of reasons 

the capability of women to manage at the top end of the womens game has absolutely been ridiculed by posters.  this was about fgr being progressive and appointing a woman caretaker manager and descended into hayes accused of slating wimbledon and not being able to handle a mens team because chelsea women couldn't beat a sunday league side/and hasn't managed men.

 

this discussion has been about womens football being seen as lesser to the mens game and that a top practitioner in the womens game should accept a lower position and be grateful

 

also, please enlighten me to some of the plethora of reasons why the top end of the mens and womens leagues has such a great distance between them in purely coaching terms, not the standard of football played by women.  i don't know if women take/can take the uefa A/B/pro licence courses, but if they can and do, why would that make them incapable of coaching men?

 

[duncanidaho]

2 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

You are missing the point a million times over, the WSL or champions league is not comparable to the male equivalent other than in name.

 

 This is the type of team Hayes comes up against

 

It would be insane if the Zurich u15 boys manager would be disrespected to be offered the Wimbledon job. 

 

2 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

You are missing the point a million times over, the WSL or champions league is not comparable to the male equivalent other than in name.

 

 This is the type of team Hayes comes up against

 

It would be insane if the Zurich u15 boys manager would be disrespected to be offered the Wimbledon job. 

so comparing u15 boys football to womens football isn't the teeniest bit sexist?  

have a think about why womens football isn't more advanced in the 21st century and then see how that stands up to scrutiny.

[duncanidaho]

3 hours ago, Grizzly Bizzly said:

 

You seem to have misread every post.

 

Nobody has said that a woman can't manage a men's team,Of course they could 

 

What people have issue with is that you insist that the WSL is a higher level than League 1 which is ludicrous.

ok, why is league 1 a higher level than wsl?

not about standards of play, that isn't what is on discussion here, but about the level within the sport.

[Ellis Rimmer]

12 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

 

so comparing u15 boys football to womens football isn't the teeniest bit sexist?  

have a think about why womens football isn't more advanced in the 21st century and then see how that stands up to scrutiny.

Why is it sexist? They play at a lower level than the u15s as seen in the video and documented games 

[duncanidaho]

5 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Why is it sexist? They play at a lower level than the u15s as seen in the video and documented games 

the discussion isn't about the standard of play between womens and mens football.  i totally agree there is a gulf between them.

this discussion is about he ability of women to manage a mens team.   if there is no physiological limitation then there is no reason this can't happen.