Holmowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Just now, fpowl said: until then go mental jordon gran those 10 goals or whatever it is this season and sign off with us with a bang He’s signing for Rooney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catdog1121 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 15 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: 16/17 - 14 starts 17/18 -17 starts 18/19 - 9 starts 19/20 - 7 starts 20/21 - 9 starts There’s 46 games in a season. Thats just starts, if he had impressed enough in training I am sure he would have started way more... He did the same at Middlesbrough. And the same at Norwich.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emilianenko Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 If I had been wrong about Rhodes all along I would be a man about it and put my hands up and admit it. I wouldn’t get all bitter and twisted about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Nickelarse Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, fpowl said: but I just think he’s had such an awful time here he needs a new start could this just be the purple patch some of our players go through when their contracts is coming to an end? Alternatively if he plays well and keeps scoring for the next 9 games and is enjoying himself, he might not want to give that up I think the improved form/contract ending link theories are generally wide of the mark personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Holmowl said: That six game winning run that got us 4th:- Rotherham 2-0 Rhodes & Fletcher started. We were 2-0 up when Rhodes went off after 60. Newcastle 2-1 O-0 when Rhodes came on 58 minutes.. We scored two quick goals and ran out winners. Cardiff 1-0 0-0 when Rhodes came on. He made the winner for FF. QPR 2-1 Rhodes started with Hooper. 2-1 up when subbed. Derby 2-1 Losing 1-0 when Rhodes came on after 54 minutes. We scored two quick goals to win Ipswich 1-0 0-0 when Rhodes came on. Rhodes played 280 minutes out of those golden 540 minutes. In those 280 minutes we scored 10. In the other 260 minutes we scored 0. Yeah, I remember the 6 game run well, and I think you're overstating Rhodes' role in those victories. The stat about Rhodes' presence on/off the pitch and goals scored is obviously compelling at face value, but in only 2 of the goals did he play a direct role; in fact, one which you characterise as him having ‘made ... for FF’ was really him having a shot saved, only for it to be followed up by FF on the rebound, which is very different from an assist. In fact, the other goal that he was directly involved in was also via his own shot (a header) being saved, but the rebound being put in. The other 8 goals he played next to no role in. But as I say, I remember those 6 games well, and the lasting impression of them was of Hooper's brilliance; he'd been out injured for 4 months, and yet his individual performances in those 6 games were excellent. He seemed to be the catalyst and I distinctly remember his impact being roundly hailed at the time. Really though, that was my main point about Rhodes' initial time at the club; we had a lot of good strikers at the time and competition for places was fierce. Last season and this season is when Rhodes has been most markedly and most frustratingly under-used, because it's during that time that the struggle for goals and lack of striking competition has been most obvious. There so often seems to have been this almost grudging reluctance to play Rhodes; indeed, he'd get a start and score, so the manager feels obliged to start him next game, but if he didn't score again, he'd be on thin ice and very likely out the side again for the game after. It's not that I couldn't see where the manager was coming from because throughout much of Rhodes' career (so not just at Wednesday) there's often been the question mark over what else does he bring to the table when he's not scoring, and really there's not a great deal to speak up for there, beyond perhaps a vague correspondence between the team's shape when he's on the pitch compared to when he's off it; it's something I've noticed enough times now for there to be something in it, and yet it's difficult to pin-point it to Rhodes because we're often talking about games in which he did very little. Having said that, (and as already stated before) his performances since the turn of the year have been far more rounded anyway. Much more lively; aggressive even. His hold up play has also been very good, and there's a much better sense now of his contribution to the team beyond just goals. He'll not necessarily score every game, of course (very few strikers do!), but it's paramount that we keep him in the side for these remaining 9 games. Staying up is unlikely still, but I do believe Rhodes represents by far our best chance of scoring goals not just as a direct source, but as a team as well; he just has to be playing now. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Nickelarse Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Emilianenko said: If I had been wrong about Rhodes all along I would be a man about it and put my hands up and admit it. I wouldn’t get all bitter and twisted about it. He's improved his all round game. Long may it continue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Also, just to add on the subject of Rhodes staying beyond this season; I don't envisage a scenario in which this happens, personally. But I've also no doubt he'll be staying in the Championship anyway, irrespective of whichever division we start next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, cowl said: Yeah, I remember the 6 game run well, and I think you're overstating Rhodes' role in those victories. The stat about Rhodes' presence on/off the pitch and goals scored is obviously compelling at face value, but in only 2 of the goals did he play a direct role; in fact, one which you characterise as him having ‘made ... for FF’ was really him having a shot saved, only for it to be followed up by FF on the rebound, which is very different from an assist. In fact, the other goal that he was directly involved in was also via his own shot (a header) being saved, but the rebound being put in. The other 8 goals he played next to no role in. But as I say, I remember those 6 games well, and the lasting impression of them was of Hooper's brilliance; he'd been out injured for 4 months, and yet his individual performances in those 6 games were excellent. He seemed to be the catalyst and I distinctly remember his impact being roundly hailed at the time. Really though, that was my main point about Rhodes' initial time at the club; we had a lot of good strikers at the time and competition for places was fierce. Last season and this season is when Rhodes has been most markedly and most frustratingly under-used, because it's during that time that the struggle for goals and lack of striking competition has been most obvious. There so often seems to have been this almost grudging reluctance to play Rhodes; indeed, he'd get a start and score, so the manager feels obliged to start him next game, but if he didn't score again, he'd be on thin ice and very likely out the side again for the game after. It's not that I couldn't see where the manager was coming from because throughout much of Rhodes' career (so not just at Wednesday) there's often been the question mark over what else does he bring to the table when he's not scoring, and really there's not a great deal to speak up for there, beyond perhaps a vague correspondence between the team's shape when he's on the pitch compared to when he's off it; it's something I've noticed enough times now for there to be something in it, and yet it's difficult to pin-point it to Rhodes because we're often talking about games in which he did very little. Having said that, (and as already stated before) his performances since the turn of the year have been far more rounded anyway. Much more lively; aggressive even. His hold up play has also been very good, and there's a much better sense now of his contribution to the team beyond just goals. He'll not necessarily score every game, of course (very few strikers do!), but it's paramount that we keep him in the side for these remaining 9 games. Staying up is unlikely still, but I do believe Rhodes represents by far our best chance of scoring goals not just as a direct source, but as a team as well; he just has to be playing now. I wasn’t trying to suggest he was instrumental in those 18 points, but I do think that too many fans over-criticise his first 18 months too. He was used by Carlos more than many think, and his impact was not as dire as many say. Though no question he is playing far better now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachyderm Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 he he he... He's won me over. Gutted for him that he didn't get a hat trick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Just now, Holmowl said: I wasn’t trying to suggest he was instrumental in those 18 points, but I do think that too many fans over-criticise his first 18 months too. He was used by Carlos more than many think, and his impact was not as dire as many say. Though no question he is playing far better now. You were clearly doing precisely that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 14 hours ago, Emilianenko said: Just cos you fell for the old lazy cliches like a sheep .and some of us could make our own minds up. Doesn’t mean it’s not making sense. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Holmowl said: That six game winning run that got us 4th:- Rotherham 2-0 Rhodes & Fletcher started. We were 2-0 up when Rhodes went off after 60. Newcastle 2-1 O-0 when Rhodes came on 58 minutes.. We scored two quick goals and ran out winners. Cardiff 1-0 0-0 when Rhodes came on. He made the winner for FF. QPR 2-1 Rhodes started with Hooper. 2-1 up when subbed. Derby 2-1 Losing 1-0 when Rhodes came on after 54 minutes. We scored two quick goals to win Ipswich 1-0 0-0 when Rhodes came on. Rhodes played 280 minutes out of those golden 540 minutes. In those 280 minutes we scored 10. In the other 260 minutes we scored 0. 2 hours ago, cowl said: Yeah, I remember the 6 game run well, and I think you're overstating Rhodes' role in those victories. The stat about Rhodes' presence on/off the pitch and goals scored is obviously compelling at face value, but in only 2 of the goals did he play a direct role; in fact, one which you characterise as him having ‘made ... for FF’ was really him having a shot saved, only for it to be followed up by FF on the rebound, which is very different from an assist. In fact, the other goal that he was directly involved in was also via his own shot (a header) being saved, but the rebound being put in. The other 8 goals he played next to no role in. But as I say, I remember those 6 games well, and the lasting impression of them was of Hooper's brilliance; he'd been out injured for 4 months, and yet his individual performances in those 6 games were excellent. He seemed to be the catalyst and I distinctly remember his impact being roundly hailed at the time. Really though, that was my main point about Rhodes' initial time at the club; we had a lot of good strikers at the time and competition for places was fierce. Last season and this season is when Rhodes has been most markedly and most frustratingly under-used, because it's during that time that the struggle for goals and lack of striking competition has been most obvious. There so often seems to have been this almost grudging reluctance to play Rhodes; indeed, he'd get a start and score, so the manager feels obliged to start him next game, but if he didn't score again, he'd be on thin ice and very likely out the side again for the game after. It's not that I couldn't see where the manager was coming from because throughout much of Rhodes' career (so not just at Wednesday) there's often been the question mark over what else does he bring to the table when he's not scoring, and really there's not a great deal to speak up for there, beyond perhaps a vague correspondence between the team's shape when he's on the pitch compared to when he's off it; it's something I've noticed enough times now for there to be something in it, and yet it's difficult to pin-point it to Rhodes because we're often talking about games in which he did very little. Having said that, (and as already stated before) his performances since the turn of the year have been far more rounded anyway. Much more lively; aggressive even. His hold up play has also been very good, and there's a much better sense now of his contribution to the team beyond just goals. He'll not necessarily score every game, of course (very few strikers do!), but it's paramount that we keep him in the side for these remaining 9 games. Staying up is unlikely still, but I do believe Rhodes represents by far our best chance of scoring goals not just as a direct source, but as a team as well; he just has to be playing now. 2 hours ago, Holmowl said: I wasn’t trying to suggest he was instrumental in those 18 points, but I do think that too many fans over-criticise his first 18 months too. He was used by Carlos more than many think, and his impact was not as dire as many say. Though no question he is playing far better now. Ha ha - you've been owned HolmOwl. As last, someone's shown how flawed your statistics are!! Let's enjoy Rhodes' good form but let's also not try to delude ourselves that he was magnificent before and that we would have been better if we would have played him, and played for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 minute ago, shandypants said: Ha ha - you've been owned HolmOwl. As last, someone's shown how flawed your statistics are!! Let's enjoy Rhodes' good form but let's also not try to delude ourselves that he was magnificent before and that we would have been better if we would have played him, and played for him. @Emilianenko can’t help it mate.. apparently he’s been proven right, and you’re bitter and twisted if you don’t think he’s been great for us since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, shandypants said: Ha ha - you've been owned HolmOwl. As last, someone's shown how flawed your statistics are!! Let's enjoy Rhodes' good form but let's also not try to delude ourselves that he was magnificent before and that we would have been better if we would have played him, and played for him. Is there a “scratches chin bemused emoji?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emilianenko Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, T Hardy said: @Emilianenko can’t help it mate.. apparently he’s been proven right, and you’re bitter and twisted if you don’t think he’s been great for us since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Emilianenko said: You really need to follow your own advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emilianenko Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 minute ago, T Hardy said: You really need to follow your own advice Too busy acting smug mate cos I was right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, shandypants said: Ha ha - you've been owned HolmOwl. As last, someone's shown how flawed your statistics are!! Let's enjoy Rhodes' good form but let's also not try to delude ourselves that he was magnificent before and that we would have been better if we would have played him, and played for him. If you want to discuss his role in those six games or the point I was trying to make, I’m happy to do so. But only if you put away the childishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, Holmowl said: If you want to discuss his role in those six games or the point I was trying to make, I’m happy to do so. But only if you put away the childishness. I think you're doing the childish thing by saying "I told you so" when it's as plain as the nose on your face that Rhodes' change of fortune is purely down to him - the real change in his game is physicality and hold-up play which has resulted in greater participation in games, leading to more confidence and a return to goal-scoring - a change in team style of play isn't going to bring about those changes in his game - a change in mindset and attitude will. I also think it is somewhat insulting to Rhodes himself to state that he is playing better now because the team are playing for him - everyone with eyes in their head can see that we aren't playing for Rhodes. But, as you, @Emilianenko and the other Jordanites have proved previously, you'll not believe it's Rhodes himself that has changed the situation; so I think I'll just leave you and the other Jordanites with your delusion that Jordan Rhodes was (I paraphrase) "treated harshly by rubbish managers before Darren Moore joined us and that he was our saviour if only we played him more and built the team around him". My sincere hope is that Rhodes can recapture the form of 7-8 years ago and I would be open to him signing a new (reduced terms) contract if he did recapture that form because that can only be good for SWFC. Anyway, I've come to that point where, for my sanity, I need to leave this conversation. However, one final thing from me: Come on Jordan lad! That's the way! Keep it up son! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A47Owl Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Holmowl said: Is there a “scratches chin bemused emoji?” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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