TomtheOwl95 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Minton said: Perhaps not, but averaging 1 assist per season (and only 3 in the last 5 seasons) is barely enough (and not enough for me personally) to warrant a right back slot in a championship team, never mind to play internationally. Well it depends on what your views are in terms of his position. For me I'd take a solid defender (I know some people don't like Liam and will say he isn't that but that isn't what my point is) who doesn't get many assists over someone who didn't defend very well but can get forward. Maybe I'm old school but I still think defending well is more important than assists as a full back. Add to that the fact he was always 2nd choice in that position prior to this season then he's not maybe had as much opportunity to bump up those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: Well it depends on what your views are in terms of his position. For me I'd take a solid defender (I know some people don't like Liam and will say he isn't that but that isn't what my point is) who doesn't get many assists over someone who didn't defend very well but can get forward. Maybe I'm old school but I still think defending well is more important than assists as a full back. Add to that the fact he was always 2nd choice in that position prior to this season then he's not maybe had as much opportunity to bump up those numbers. Perhaps where we differ in opinion is that I see assists and creating chances from the full backs as a vital part of the role, particularly in the modern game. Liam Palmer's attacking play is definitely a weakness, look at the difference Lazaar made in the 2 appearances he made for example. And 259 appearances is a fair amount of time to 'bump up' stats. He has, however, improved his defensive play massively this season. Edited March 7, 2019 by Minton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Minton said: Perhaps where we differ in opinion is that I see assists and creating chances from the full backs as a vital part of the role, particularly in the modern game. Liam Palmer's attacking play is definitely a weakness, look at the difference Lazaar made in the 2 appearances he made for example. And 259 appearances is a fair amount of time to 'bump up' stats. He has, however, improved his defensive play massively this season. But there is a difference between a full back (which Liam is) and a wing back (which Lazaar is). I do agree he needs to add to those numbers to progress further up the football pyramid. As for the numbers, of those 259 appearances. How many of those were as a full back at all and not CM/RM and how many were in a team that was capable of creating good chances from that position? For me if he stops them at our end then he's doing his job, if he can get some assists and goals then that's a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: But there is a difference between a full back (which Liam is) and a wing back (which Lazaar is). I do agree he needs to add to those numbers to progress further up the football pyramid. As for the numbers, of those 259 appearances. How many of those were as a full back at all and not CM/RM and how many were in a team that was capable of creating good chances from that position? For me if he stops them at our end then he's doing his job, if he can get some assists and goals then that's a bonus. The argument that he's played a fair percentage of those games at RM or CM makes his assist and goal tallies even worse though surely? He's solid enough, but the difference between being mid table and challenging further up the table is having the extra quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Minton said: The argument that he's played a fair percentage of those games at RM or CM makes his assist and goal tallies even worse though surely? He's solid enough, but the difference between being mid table and challenging further up the table is having the extra quality Well it's dependant on how you play isn't it. If our midfield had performed to the levels they should have done over the last 18 months we wouldn't be looking at the creative stats of a right back. My point on his other positions was that he's been moved around a lot so he maybe hasn't always had the chance to flourish completely. Again I'm not saying his numbers are amazing but his job is defending. A bit like Reach he's been shifted around a lot which isn't always the best thing for a players' development. It's not like we're looking at Jack Hunt who's always played RB or RWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: Well it's dependant on how you play isn't it. If our midfield had performed to the levels they should have done over the last 18 months we wouldn't be looking at the creative stats of a right back. My point on his other positions was that he's been moved around a lot so he maybe hasn't always had the chance to flourish completely. Again I'm not saying his numbers are amazing but his job is defending. A bit like Reach he's been shifted around a lot which isn't always the best thing for a players' development. It's not like we're looking at Jack Hunt who's always played RB or RWB. Reach has still been our top goal creating (goals and assists) in the 2 and a half seasons he's been here though. Despite being played at LB, LWB, CM, RM, LM and (occasional) striker. But I digress, Palmer needs to improve his attacking play in my opinion. His versatility and improved defensive performances are a step in the right direction however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Newsome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Palmer is about as Scottish as Mel Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John O'Brien Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 04/03/2019 at 18:54, pazowl55 said: McGinn if you believe Villa fans. Seriously though they do have some players that would walk into our team. Robertson, Tierney, Patterson, Fraser, Forrest, Snodgrass. Armstrong doing well for saints aswell. Calum McGregor, Ryan Christie, Oli Burke, Leigh Griffiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Newsome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, John O'Brien said: Calum McGregor, Ryan Christie, Oli Burke, Leigh Griffiths. Stop with your Celtic promoting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brommers Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 04/03/2019 at 16:23, Minton said: 259 apps, 1 goal, 10 assists. That's why he's not playing for Scotland Sounds like the record of a Luxemburg international striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said: Palmer is about as Scottish as Mel Gibson. His Gran is from Lanarkshire, which is where his eligibility comes from and he played for the Scotland youth sides a decent number of times. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liam-palmer-ready-show-alex-14079536 "I regard myself as Scottish" Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Accents aren't everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 19 hours ago, edinburghowl said: On the striker front I’d even consider playing Calum up top instead of at right back which could help Palmer get his place in the side. Up front is another area where we are lacking and I agree that Fletcher doesn’t score enough. Calum is a huge aerial threat, he scores goals, and he did the striker role successfully for Hearts a number of times. It’s certianly an option if consider It's an option. Cardiff did use him up top for a few months and he scored a few including against Liverpool. I think we're probably best using players in the positions they play week in, week out tho. He's not played right back for years, so for me he probably should be playing there except in emergencies. And a few months up front doesn't mean he's a striker. If you're McBurnie, and you don't get a game for Scotland right now you've got to wonder what else you have to do tbh. Playing as a lone striker for his club and scored 16, assisted 4. Fletcher's numbers are literally half that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Newsome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, cookeh said: His Gran is from Lanarkshire, which is where his eligibility comes from and he played for the Scotland youth sides a decent number of times. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liam-palmer-ready-show-alex-14079536 "I regard myself as Scottish" Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Accents aren't everything. Yeah his gran comes from Scotland so yeah he's quite clearly Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I have high cholesterol therefore qualify for Scotland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John O'Brien Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said: Stop with your Celtic promoting. 4 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said: Stop with your Celtic promoting. Your like a carbuncle on my back NJN, read the whole thing before you produce pus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernblues Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said: Yeah his gran comes from Scotland so yeah he's quite clearly Scottish. That's how it works, my Grandad was from Port Seton (just outside Edinburgh), It makes me part Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beighton Owl 87 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Brommers said: Sounds like the record of a Luxemburg international striker. And there on a par with Scotland so no excuses for him not getting selected 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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