Jos

[flash]

Can’t say I’m convinced by the 3-5-2 albeit yes we had some good results at the back end of last season with this. 

 

Id actually like to see us in a 4-3-3. 

Palmer, Lees, Pudil, Reach 

 Bannan, Hutchinson, Lee (when fit)

 Joao, Hooper/Fletch, FF 

 

A little harsh on Nuhui and I know full backs aren’t ideal and nor is Pudil in a CB partnership but with what we have I’d prefer this. Options would be to move Hutch in CB and put Joey at CM but can’t say I’ve been convinced by him so far!

 

Obviously this will never happen! 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Sonny said:

He could be sticking around because he was aware of the constraints and wants to do a good job (for which he will be paid well).

I hope that is the case and if so, then that's fine by me.

[cookeh]

46 minutes ago, Walt said:

We have also lost Hunt our first choice RWB

So that’s a RCB and a RWB.

 

Vanancio is a far better defender than JVA, to say ‘slightly worse’ is a massive understatement at the moment although JVA may improve in time.

 

Hunt is a far better wingback than Palmer. After giving both Palmer and Hunt a fair crack at it Jos selected Hunt every time he was fit. He even selected Reach and then Baker ahead of Palmer in two games when Hunt was out injured.

 

Apparently we moved Lees to the right of the three centre backs, that’s not his game as he should be the central one. So there is another change to how we set up from last season. 

 

Pudil’s legs had gone at left back so we moved him to LCB. TBF I thought he played quite well in that role but there were little signs that time may be catching up with him at LCB.

 

Reach at LWB is anyone’s guess to how it will go as you can easily see both sides of the argument.

 

So that’s a a back five that is 2/5ths weaker and a positional change that doesn’t really suit arguably our best centre back.

 

Venancio is better than van Aken. Tho.. I don't think van Aken was particularly at fault on Saturday.. Lees was at fault for at least 2 iirc. Palmer could have got to 2 as well probably. van Aken almost go to the 1st, tho that wasn't his man, i think it was Pessy's. So i think the criticism of van Aken is a bit ott and based on the handful of mistakes he made when he first arrived and was thrown straight into a new league in a team that was at 6s and 7s.

 

Lees used to drift over to the right a lot when we played with a back 2, often filling in behind the right back when they went forward. So it's a perfectly natural roll for him now, doing exactly that. For me he made a couple of mistakes on Saturday, but he's better than that, he'll come back.

 

Pudil, was a rock at times in the center of defense 2nd half of last season. If anything he should be better there not with the experience of last season behind him.

 

Hunt vs Palmer.. i honestly have never thought there was much in it. Palmer gets pelters from many for no apparent reason. Hunt was a liability defensively most of the time and while he had the odd exciting run forward his stats for assists is utterly pathetic by any measure. Palmer's preseason was really good, so I don't see it that we've lost a vital piece of the puzzle there. On Saturday we struggled a bit with wigan's wings, Reach not covering well on one side and Palmer and Lees not quite on the same wavelength on the other. It improved.. hopefully it'll carry on doing so.

 

LWB is the bit problem. We played Boyd there a lot last season, which just about covered the cracks. Reach looks out of place there. He's seems too absent defensively, I'd rather have Boyd back in there.. or a loan of a LWB from the reserves of a prem side. We're not any worse off here than we were last season tho, we probably have more options than then, even if none shine as an obviously great one. It's not a reason we'd be worse tho.

 

So I agree we didn't look sound defensively on Saturday. There are other possible reasons.. Dawson seemed to behaving an off day which might have affected the defense.. and a new midfield 3 that hasn't really played. Hutch was neither here nor there for much of the game, and Pessy got a bit overrun. That dynamic needs to be sorted and hopefully it's something they're working on in training. These are all just details to be ironed out tho.. certainly not "we don't have the personnel.

 

All that said, we should be playing 343, not 352. :D

[AwokenGiant]

Got a reputation for not taking any prisoners - can only see a positive reaction on Sat! 

Edited August 8, 2018 by AwokenGiant

[Walt]

2 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Venancio is better than van Aken. Tho.. I don't think van Aken was particularly at fault on Saturday.. Lees was at fault for at least 2 iirc. Palmer could have got to 2 as well probably. van Aken almost go to the 1st, tho that wasn't his man, i think it was Pessy's. So i think the criticism of van Aken is a bit ott and based on the handful of mistakes he made when he first arrived and was thrown straight into a new league in a team that was at 6s and 7s.

 

Lees used to drift over to the right a lot when we played with a back 2, often filling in behind the right back when they went forward. So it's a perfectly natural roll for him now, doing exactly that. For me he made a couple of mistakes on Saturday, but he's better than that, he'll come back.

 

Pudil, was a rock at times in the center of defense 2nd half of last season. If anything he should be better there not with the experience of last season behind him.

 

Hunt vs Palmer.. i honestly have never thought there was much in it. Palmer gets pelters from many for no apparent reason. Hunt was a liability defensively most of the time and while he had the odd exciting run forward his stats for assists is utterly pathetic by any measure. Palmer's preseason was really good, so I don't see it that we've lost a vital piece of the puzzle there. On Saturday we struggled a bit with wigan's wings, Reach not covering well on one side and Palmer and Lees not quite on the same wavelength on the other. It improved.. hopefully it'll carry on doing so.

 

LWB is the bit problem. We played Boyd there a lot last season, which just about covered the cracks. Reach looks out of place there. He's seems too absent defensively, I'd rather have Boyd back in there.. or a loan of a LWB from the reserves of a prem side. We're not any worse off here than we were last season tho, we probably have more options than then, even if none shine as an obviously great one. It's not a reason we'd be worse tho.

 

So I agree we didn't look sound defensively on Saturday. There are other possible reasons.. Dawson seemed to behaving an off day which might have affected the defense.. and a new midfield 3 that hasn't really played. Hutch was neither here nor there for much of the game, and Pessy got a bit overrun. That dynamic needs to be sorted and hopefully it's something they're working on in training. These are all just details to be ironed out tho.. certainly not "we don't have the personnel.

 

All that said, we should be playing 343, not 352. :D

A side that plays with a back 3 needs three sound reliable defenders, last season we had that - Pudil, Lees, Venancio all playing in positions that suited the system. Pudil and Venancio as the outside centre half's who naturally drop in to the fullback positions when needed as they are both 'footballers' Lees for all his many plus points is not and never will be comfortable doing this. It became apparent that under CC, Lees was the one the opposition targeted to press into a mistake when given the ball as he isn't comfortable with the ball at his feet, not a great trait to have when you will be often finding yourself in the fullback position with Jos's current system.

 

So last Saturday, although only one personnel change (for a weaker defender) meant a reshuffle, taking our best centre half of his normal position and putting him into a weaker one,  So we are weaker in two positions in the back three. Pudil no change, JVA weaker than Lees, Lees weaker than Venancio (at RCB)

 

Palmer V Hunt: Completely disagree but can't be arsed to go into that debate again as it does no one any favours, Our last two managers thought Hunt was the first choice right back / RWB. So going on their thoughts we are weaker there. They both maybe wrong but I very much doubt it. 

 

I'd say we need three new defenders to make that system work. I'd also qualify that by saying I think Pudil , Lees, Hutch should be our back three every day of the week but it seems that Jos (at the moment) would rather play Hutch in midfield. If Hutch was to play RCB then I'd say we only need two wingbacks, even then given our financial plight we may get by with just signing one RWB. It's not ideal as the wingback role is very demanding (well not when Palmer plays it as he just ambles along...sorry force of habit) and I think both LWB / RWB will need to be rested from time to time.

 

Agree 343 or probably 433 would make more sense but whatever, just get FF on the left of a front three. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Walt

[bigash_swfc]

Will people stop saying 3-5-2, because I want to pop Forestieri on the left.

 

It's 5-3-2.

[cookeh]

4 minutes ago, Walt said:

A side that plays with a back 3 needs three sound reliable defenders, last season we had that - Pudil, Lees, Venancio all playing in positions that suited the system. Pudil and Venancio as the outside centre half's who naturally drop in to the fullback positions when needed as they are both 'footballers' Lees for all his many plus points is not and never will be comfortable doing this. It became apparent that under CC, Lees was the one the opposition targeted to press into a mistake when given the ball as he isn't comfortable with the ball at his feet, not a great trait to have when you will be often finding yourself in the fullback position with Jos's current system. 

 

So last Saturday, although only personnel change (for a weaker defender) meant a reshuffle, taking our best centre half of his normal position and putting him into a weaker one,  So we are weaker in two positions in the back three. Pudil no change, JVA weaker than Lees, Lees weaker than Venancio (at RCB)

 

Palmer V Hunt: Completely disagree but can't be arsed to go into that debate again as it does no one any favours, Our last two managers thought Hunt was the first choice right back / RWB. So going on their thoughts we are weaker there. They both maybe wrong but I very much doubt it.  

 

I'd say we need three new defenders to make that system work. I'd also qualify that by saying I think Pudil , Lees, Hutch should be our back three every day of the week but it seems that Jos (at the moment) would rather play Hutch in midfield. If Hutch was to play RCB then I'd say we only need two wingbacks, even then given our financial plight we may get by with just signing one RWB. It's not ideal as the wingback role is very demanding (well not when Palmer plays it as he just ambles along...sorry force of habit) and I think both LWB / RWB will need to be rested from time to time. 

 

Agree 343 or probably 433 would make more sense but whatever, just get FF on the left of a front three.

 

Thanks for the reply. It's nice to get someone's actual thoughts.

 

I agree we're probably best served with a back 3 of Pudil, Lees, Hutch.  Not only is it probably our strongest back line, but is a 343 it leaves Pessy and Bannan to get on with it as they were doing at the end of last season. Not sure Lees is that bad on the ball to become a liability. His mistakes on Saturday were both while Wigan had possession (not with his man for the 2nd, then letting his man inside for the 3rd). It's an interesting perspective tho, and I'll pay extra attention to it in future.

 

With Palmer and Hunt.. it was actually a lot more split under than you might think. In Carlos' first season they cycled a lot, tho Hunt was in the drivers seat in terms of starts. The 2nd season Palmer was the first choice up until the new year. Under Jos, Palmer started 8 of 18 games, with Baker getting a run out in the last, that makes it basically an even spilt with Hunt. I'd be of the mind to try Lee there once he's back fit. He was a right back when he first played for us, and he has the engine to make a difference at both ends.

For me the only glaring hole (if we're to accept that our depth is going to come from ex-academy players) is the left wingback slot. Fox isn't attacking enough, Reach isn't defensive enough and Boyd's not the best defensively either. But that slot's no worse served that it was last season. I still think van Aken should be given a shot out there.. but it'll probably never happen.

 

For me we should be going 343.

 

Nando - Fletch/Nuhiu - Hooper/Joao

Reach/Boyd - Bannan - Pessy - Palmer/Lee

Pudil - Lees - Hutch

Westwood

 

We have the players to play a back 3. We looked a lot better on the front foot 343 towards the end of the Wigan game, so let's go with that and blow teams away. We have great attacking talent, we should be making best use of it.

 

[Walt]

4 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Thanks for the reply. It's nice to get someone's actual thoughts.

 

I agree we're probably best served with a back 3 of Pudil, Lees, Hutch.  Not only is it probably our strongest back line, but is a 343 it leaves Pessy and Bannan to get on with it as they were doing at the end of last season. Not sure Lees is that bad on the ball to become a liability. His mistakes on Saturday were both while Wigan had possession (not with his man for the 2nd, then letting his man inside for the 3rd). It's an interesting perspective tho, and I'll pay extra attention to it in future.

 

With Palmer and Hunt.. it was actually a lot more split under than you might think. In Carlos' first season they cycled a lot, tho Hunt was in the drivers seat in terms of starts. The 2nd season Palmer was the first choice up until the new year. Under Jos, Palmer started 8 of 18 games, with Baker getting a run out in the last, that makes it basically an even spilt with Hunt. I'd be of the mind to try Lee there once he's back fit. He was a right back when he first played for us, and he has the engine to make a difference at both ends.

For me the only glaring hole (if we're to accept that our depth is going to come from ex-academy players) is the left wingback slot. Fox isn't attacking enough, Reach isn't defensive enough and Boyd's not the best defensively either. But that slot's no worse served that it was last season. I still think van Aken should be given a shot out there.. but it'll probably never happen.

 

For me we should be going 343.

 

Nando - Fletch/Nuhiu - Hooper/Joao

Reach/Boyd - Bannan - Pessy - Palmer/Lee

Pudil - Lees - Hutch

Westwood

 

We have the players to play a back 3. We looked a lot better on the front foot 343 towards the end of the Wigan game, so let's go with that and blow teams away. We have great attacking talent, we should be making best use of it.

 

Cheers, mate no worries, makes a nice change from slagging each others opinion off and not seeing the other persons point of view.

 

Regarding Palmer v Hunt: 

 

I looked the stats up the other day. When Jos arrived he gave Palmer a run of games (I think Hunt was out or just coming back from injury). When Hunt took the shirt from Palmer, Palmer never started another game when Hunt was fit. Like you say in the last two games when Hunt was out injured (again) Reach got a go at right back and so did Baker.

 

I wouldn't say Lees is a liability as a RCB it's just that he's far better at being in the middle of the three, it's what he's made for. Plus Hutch would be a natural at RCB where he can make use of his more natural footballing ability. 

 

I'd hate to see JVA at LWB as I'm still having flashbacks to what the piggyjacks did to him, think he'd get turned inside out by any half decent winger. Think we need to toughen him up a bit and get him concentrating on the basics at centre half tbh. I've not given up on him like some have as there is ability there, it just came with too many mistakes last season imo.

[S1Owl]

He's trying to play a Dutch way in the championship but Van Aken who Jos seems to love is light weight as shown many times. Prefer Fred. 

[Sham67]

8 hours ago, zakswfc said:

Watching that game you could completely tell that 3 at the back isn't for us. And yes we won a fair few games at the end of last season but in each we looked total dog shyte. 

4 at the back is a must. 

 

What!  Including the games we were scoring 4 and 5 a game?

[Stoop]

I still don’t think he’s got a clue as to what his best side and formation is yet, which worries me

Edited August 8, 2018 by Stoop

[Sergeant Tibbs]

9 hours ago, Sonny said:

He could be sticking around because he was aware of the constraints and wants to do a good job (for which he will be paid well).

Strikes me as professional, honest man - agree he wants to do well.

[Retford_Owl]

At his current disposal this is the best team Jos could put out 

 

GK Westwood 

 

DR Palmer

DC Lees

DC Hutchinson 

DL Pudil 

 

DMC Van Aken 

MC Bannan

 

AMR Matias

AMC Reach

AML Forestieri 

 

CF Joao 

 

those 4 on the counter would be dangerous!

 

....that team would seal 3 points Saturday IMO

[Lichfield alien]

Tom lees has had a crap 12 months..maybe 18 months