TrickyTrev Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 44 minutes ago, poite said: If Lee does retire it would show his character and respect for this club and he deserves a medal for his genuine honesty about what he's going to be capable of in the future. I just hope to god this isn't the case for him. Would set him apart from the vultures we have like Matias and Abdi. Two players who know they have zero chance of stringing 2 games together but will bleed the dry until the final possible second of their contracts. I know they have a contract that the club should honour and they have personal lives that require their pay but there should be something in a contract that says if your player who can't play a certain percentage of games over a couple of seasons the club are entitled to release you I get your point on contracts and agree with you but if the club actually carried out thorough medicals then there’d be no need for such clauses. Medicals are there to protect clubs from signing overpaid crocs like Abdi and Matias. We’ve done it before with Hinchcliffe, Donnelly, O’Donnell and Scott. I know when Dave Allen came to the club, one thing he wanted to stop was the practice of signing injured players and he put in place stringent medicals, looks like we’ve let that slip over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield alien Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 02/05/2018 at 20:36, Lord Snooty said: Lee was advised to retire when he was at Oldham? A few million pound later..I bet he's glad he didn't take that advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelman Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said: I get your point on contracts and agree with you but if the club actually carried out thorough medicals then there’d be no need for such clauses. Medicals are there to protect clubs from signing overpaid crocs like Abdi and Matias. We’ve done it before with Hinchcliffe, Donnelly, O’Donnell and Scott. I know when Dave Allen came to the club, one thing he wanted to stop was the practice of signing injured players and he put in place stringent medicals, looks like we’ve let that slip over time. I agree with this entirely. Who knows, maybe we did have stringent medicals in place? But they're worthess if you've got a complete idiot in charge like Carlos the Fraud who just plays them till they break and then throws them stright back in before they're fully fit. He's got a lot to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Lichfield alien said: A few million pound later..I bet he's glad he didn't take that advice If he's in a wheelchair in a few years he might wish he had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, poite said: If Lee does retire it would show his character and respect for this club and he deserves a medal for his genuine honesty about what he's going to be capable of in the future. I just hope to god this isn't the case for him. Would set him apart from the vultures we have like Matias and Abdi. Two players who know they have zero chance of stringing 2 games together but will bleed the dry until the final possible second of their contracts. I know they have a contract that the club should honour and they have personal lives that require their pay but there should be something in a contract that says if your player who can't play a certain percentage of games over a couple of seasons the club are entitled to release you Can't beat a good old naive post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 16 hours ago, poite said: If Lee does retire it would show his character and respect for this club and he deserves a medal for his genuine honesty about what he's going to be capable of in the future. I just hope to god this isn't the case for him. Would set him apart from the vultures we have like Matias and Abdi. Two players who know they have zero chance of stringing 2 games together but will bleed the dry until the final possible second of their contracts. I know they have a contract that the club should honour and they have personal lives that require their pay but there should be something in a contract that says if your player who can't play a certain percentage of games over a couple of seasons the club are entitled to release you Good luck getting any players to sign with that nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, scram said: Good luck getting any players to sign with that nonsense Yep and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, scram said: Good luck getting any players to sign with that nonsense It would be quite easy if all the club's did it. Then players wouldn't have a choice. They could alternatively take your view it's nonsense and go down a different career path. It's no different to any other contract or policy in other industries. If your unable to work for a certain amount of days you can be sick whilst retaining normal pay but if your absence becomes more long term you move to statutory sick pay. The only reason you think it nonsense is because your taking a narrow minded view that I am suggesting we do this uniquely. Edited June 15, 2018 by poite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, poite said: It would be quite easy if all the club's did it. Then players wouldn't have a choice. They could alternatively take your view it's nonsense and go down a different career path. It's no different to any other contract or policy in other industries. If your unable to work for a certain amount of days you can be sick whilst retaining normal pay but if your absence becomes more long term you move to statutory sick pay. The only reason you think it nonsense is because your taking a narrow minded view that I am suggesting we do this uniquely. So your not an expert in employment law either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 On 14/06/2018 at 08:18, OneDavidHirst said: I agree with this entirely. Who knows, maybe we did have stringent medicals in place? But they're worthess if you've got a complete idiot in charge like Carlos the Fraud who just plays them till they break and then throws them stright back in before they're fully fit. He's got a lot to answer for. He as, but so do the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 13 hours ago, markg said: So your not an expert in employment law either? It's how it's worked in every place of employment during my career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 14 hours ago, poite said: It would be quite easy if all the club's did it. Then players wouldn't have a choice. They could alternatively take your view it's nonsense and go down a different career path. It's no different to any other contract or policy in other industries. If your unable to work for a certain amount of days you can be sick whilst retaining normal pay but if your absence becomes more long term you move to statutory sick pay. The only reason you think it nonsense is because your taking a narrow minded view that I am suggesting we do this uniquely. Clubs can't do it and the contracts are different from standard employment contracts - and it's blatantly not the same as the average person being off sick from the average job Injured players don't just stay away from the club (their place of work) until they are uninjured - they often have to work harder and put in much longer hours And players will always have a choice - and there will always be clubs that accommodate them therefore there is less than zero chance of clubs introducing a policy of not paying players who get injured - it's probably against even our ridiculous lax employment laws I'm not taking a narrow minded view - i'm taking a pragmatic view that not only is it very different from a "normal" job - but it can't work in practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, scram said: Clubs can't do it and the contracts are different from standard employment contracts - and it's blatantly not the same as the average person being off sick from the average job Injured players don't just stay away from the club (their place of work) until they are uninjured - they often have to work harder and put in much longer hours And players will always have a choice - and there will always be clubs that accommodate them therefore there is less than zero chance of clubs introducing a policy of not paying players who get injured - it's probably against even our ridiculous lax employment laws I'm not taking a narrow minded view - i'm taking a pragmatic view that not only is it very different from a "normal" job - but it can't work in practice Not to mention the fact that a player gets injured playing for his club. Also, it could be counter productive. If a player could have his contract cancelled through being injured I bet you’d never get a player risking playing with a slight knock or strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, scram said: Clubs can't do it and the contracts are different from standard employment contracts - so it's impossible to change them? and it's blatantly not the same as the average person being off sick from the average job. Is it? Injured players don't just stay away from the club (their place of work) until they are uninjured - they often have to work harder and put in much longer hours and the club recieves what exactly by paying someone to recover from injury? Can't see what benefit any club would get from paying a player to train. And players will always have a choice - and there will always be clubs that accommodate them therefore there is less than zero chance of clubs introducing a policy of not paying players who get injured - it's probably against even our ridiculous lax employment laws That's what I said. But if all clubs did introduce it it would form part of a standard contract I'm not taking a narrow minded view - i'm taking a pragmatic view that not only is it very different from a "normal" job - but it can't work in practice I think you're just over complicating it. It's very simple. A club signs a football player to play football. If they are unable to supply that there should be some protection for the club. But let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that every time a player gets injured and is out for 2 months they should have their wages refused. I'm talking about players who have been injured for the majority of their entire contract. Injuries happen and sometimes you'll get a player who breaks his leg after one game and is unable to play the rest of the season. This is a acceptable risk on the club's part and the player would be entitled to their pay. It's just one of those things. But when you have a player like Matias who's been at the club for 3 years and appeared about 20 times in total a club should be able to so something. His injuries aren't from incidents in a game like a leg breaking tackle, his body just can't cope with the strain of playing professional football - it's all a moot point though, cos you're right, it will never happen cos it would require all clubs to do it. But that's the only way it ever could happen if it did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said: Not to mention the fact that a player gets injured playing for his club. Also, it could be counter productive. If a player could have his contract cancelled through being injured I bet you’d never get a player risking playing with a slight knock or strain. So that's where it's different. It would be completely unrealistic to stop paying a player cos they broke their leg in the last game and will miss the rest of the season. That's an injury as a result of playing for the club. But how many of Abdi's injuries have been as a result of being injured during a game? Zero possibly. It's just simply that his body can't handle the physical strain of playing football. Players shouldn't be entitled to full pay of thousands a week when they are incapable of providing the service they're being paid for under these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 The same Abdi who had just played 32 games in the premier league and was in full pre-season training and had played a match before joining? Seems his body handled the physical strain (at greater intensity) immediately prior to joining How else did he get injured if not in the service of the club when training or playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, scram said: The same Abdi who had just played 32 games in the premier league and was in full pre-season training and had played a match before joining? Seems his body handled the physical strain (at greater intensity) immediately prior to joining How else did he get injured if not in the service of the club when training or playing? That's irrelevant. What happened in the previous year means nothing. The only thing that means anything is what he has done at this club. And the answer to that is nothing. He did get injured in the service of the club by training or playing, but the root cause of his injuries is purely down to his own body and fitness and it's inability to recover properly to avoid reoccurrence of those injuries. If he kept getting injured cos Sam Hutchinson kept lunging into him with 2 footed tackles in training I'd accept your point but the fact is he can't handle the strain anymore. Makes sense doesn't it given that the club he played 32 games for in the previous season were very willing to get rid of him. Maybe they could see what was happening or going to happen. A possible factor surely? Edited June 15, 2018 by poite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 He plays 32 out of 38 games in the premier league and his club decide his body can't handle the strain any more Getting rid obviously nothing to do with a change of manager and coaching staff then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Abdi has some time injured and a lot of time unselected. A deliberate strategy of not saying anything about him was used as they knew exactly conclusions fans would draw: injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 18 hours ago, poite said: It's how it's worked in every place of employment during my career. So you get injured at work and it takes you a while to recover. They can then just get rid of you? That’s pretty bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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