Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Read post number 149 Good to hear that to be fair. There can be no doubt that COG is showing far more than many expected - including me to be fair. Always liked what he brought to the table but his finishing this term is a notch above. Worth checking out the early career of Grant Holt. Would be nice if COG could become a similar later developer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's abusive calling someone deluded?? flip in 'ell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 you really are thick, now please go away and annoy someone else Care to explain why? Because it appears to me that I've spotted a contradiction in your ramblings. Still waiting for that explanation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Yep, i'm going to accuse you again. You're looking to blame DJ for something else. Move on. Just because you said so? It doesn't happen like that, I'm afraid, you have to earn your right to say stuff like that. Where has Bothroyd played in every game before midweek and where did COG play in midweek? And who scored and how many? And was Bothroyd signed as a goalscorer or to play wide left? Edited October 4, 2012 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 He also said COG is a good finisher later on (in response to a question regarding his contribution) but I agree it would have looked better saying it in that context - but not for DJs signing of Bothroyd (who has played the role COG played midweek in all his games prior to midweek). I'm sure I will get accused of looking for things too deeply but to me it's fairly obvious that DJ has performed a U-turn here with COG and Bothroyd but isn't really prepared to admit as such. In a match we desperately needed to score in he played COG in the goalscoring role. BigDan has pointed this out to me. I'm pleased to be fair. I think that DJ has had to revise his thoughts on this but I'd be more than happy to see DJ being credited in a years time for uncovering and polishing talents and turning COG into a striker coveted by other higher echelon clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Bothroyd clearly has the proven track record in this league, Gary Madine & Chris O'Grady do not. That's not meant as an insult to COG & Madine. Yep. That. I. A nutshell. DJ didn't have plans for CoG that's obvious. He probably thought he was too 'one dimensional' for want of a better description. As DJ said, a runner and a good finisher. Not a creator. I remember fans saying last season CoG wasn't good enough, he went a lot of games without a goal. But you can't argue with his form this season if you put it up against our other strikers. He's on the team sheet, has to be. I fear however he still won't be a permanent fixture and as soon as he stops scoring he'll be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarboro-owl Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Insulting other posters instead of addressing the point is commonplace unfortunately on this type of forum. It is good that the Mods take a stand. It needs to be equitable though. you mean when i get abused by the big boys all ganging up on me, a point might i add thats been made by others on here, i was warned not to answer them back, i think the poster said beware of them actually i do get carried away yes, and i do say some things i shouldn't, i'm new to all this forum lark, its only cos i cant get to all the games this year that i joined, maybe it was a mistake, possibly my fault, maybe im to old, maybe if you arent in a clicque you get eaten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yep. That. I. A nutshell. DJ didn't have plans for CoG that's obvious. He probably thought he was too 'one dimensional' for want of a better description. As DJ said, a runner and a good finisher. Not a creator. I remember fans saying last season CoG wasn't good enough, he went a lot of games without a goal. But you can't argue with his form this season if you put it up against our other strikers. He's on the team sheet, has to be. I fear however he still won't be a permanent fixture and as soon as he stops scoring he'll be dropped. We can't afford him to stop scoring!!! There should be no permanent fixtures. You just hope that players get a fair crack of the whip and are selected on current merit not past reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarboro-owl Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Bothroyd clearly has the proven track record in this league, Gary Madine & Chris O'Grady do not. That's not meant as an insult to COG & Madine. ok explain Grant Holt, track records are for horses and dogs, and while you are there, Bothroyds track record you are all wetting yourselves about is garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yep. That. I. A nutshell. DJ didn't have plans for CoG that's obvious. He probably thought he was too 'one dimensional' for want of a better description. As DJ said, a runner and a good finisher. Not a creator. I remember fans saying last season CoG wasn't good enough, he went a lot of games without a goal. But you can't argue with his form this season if you put it up against our other strikers. He's on the team sheet, has to be. I fear however he still won't be a permanent fixture and as soon as he stops scoring he'll be dropped. Precisely. Does anyone genuinely believe DJ would have kept him in the team if he had experienced the amount of non goalscoring matches as Bothroyd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) you mean when i get abused by the big boys all ganging up on me, a point might i add thats been made by others on here, i was warned not to answer them back, i think the poster said beware of them actually i do get carried away yes, and i do say some things i shouldn't, i'm new to all this forum lark, its only cos i cant get to all the games this year that i joined, maybe it was a mistake, possibly my fault, maybe im to old, maybe if you arent in a clicque you get eaten up. I have seen many instances of extremely insulting posting that have not been deemed worthy of Moderator comment. That is why I mention the equitable point. I find too though that it is pretty easy to turn an insult against the insulter. An insult often indicates an exhaustion of sensible argument. Edited October 4, 2012 by Dagmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) ok explain Grant Holt, track records are for horses and dogs, and while you are there, Bothroyds track record you are all wetting yourselves about is garbage He had one great season, strangely enough in this division and under this manager so my expectations were high (check out my posts at the time). Taking his Cardiff era out of the equation his goals to games ratio is actually worse than COGs, granted he's tended to play in a higher league but he's also 4 years older (and gone through the 27-29 years stage where strikers tend to hit their peak).. Edited October 4, 2012 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) ok explain Grant Holt, track records are for horses and dogs, and while you are there, Bothroyds track record you are all wetting yourselves about is garbage Why are you talking about Grant Holt? What's he got to do with anything? it's a not a clear science, of course there are going to be players that make the step up first time. I hope Chris O'Grady does that, i hope he rips this league apart. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dave Jones bringing in players proven at this level. JB's record? he scored 18 goals in 2010-2011 in this league. Is that not good? or are you wanting Messi type figures? Edited October 4, 2012 by bigdan2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Why are you talking about Grant Holt? What's he got to do with anything? it's a not a clear science, of course there are going to be players that make the step up first time. I hope Chris O'Grady does that, i hope he rips this league apart. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dave Jones bringing in players proven at this level. JB's record? he scored 18 goals in 2010-2011 in this league. Is that not good? or are you wanting Messi type figures? Agree with that but dropping our only in form striker a few games ago was baffling. For the record I hope that JB, COG and GM all start to do the biz and then we'll have the goal scoring side of things sorted. At the moment though its just COG that is delivering really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarboro-owl Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Why are you talking about Grant Holt? What's he got to do with anything? it's a not a clear science, of course there are going to be players that make the step up first time. I hope Chris O'Grady does that, i hope he rips this league apart. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dave Jones bringing in players proven at this level. JB's record? he scored 18 goals in 2010-2011 in this league. and the mods wonder why i get revved up Grant Holt shows that you can progress through all levels of football, and football is littered with Grant Holts firstly COG is doing his best to rip the league apart, or at least he would be if DJ didn't keep dropping or moving around our most in form striker to accomodate his loanee, right go and find out how many goals JB has scored in his career at this level, its not very good, in fact i'd say it was garbage, just like i said in the post you objected to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Agree with that but dropping our only in form striker a few games ago was baffling. For the record I hope that JB, COG and GM all start to do the biz and then we'll have the goal scoring side of things sorted. At the moment though its just COG that is delivering really. Don't get me wrong mate, i'm not agreeing with dropping COG, that's not my point in this conversation. I'm trying argue that DJ has made some good experienced signings, with proven records in this division. And that he needed to make changes from last season’s squad. The weaknesses were there to see before he introduced Bothroyd and Taylor. But, going back to COG, he should not have dropped him....but hey, COG has given him a headache now. I also hate this perception that DJ has a problem with COG, as though he's secretly hoping COG fails so that he can play his favorites. But it's a team game, and COG is only a threat when we play to his strengths just like any player. Edited October 4, 2012 by bigdan2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Don't get me wrong mate, i'm not agreeing with dropping COG, that's not my point in this conversation. I'm trying argue that DJ has made some good experienced signings, with proven records in this division. And that he needed to make changes from last season’s squad. The weaknesses were there to see before he introduced Bothroyd and Taylor. But, going back to COG, he should not have dropped him....but hey, COG has given him a headache now. I also hate this perception that DJ has a problem with COG, as though he's secretly hoping COG fails so that he can play his favorites. But it's a team game, and COG is only a threat when we play to his strengths just like any player. So what is your explanation of how he's been treated by DJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 and the mods wonder why i get revved up Grant Holt shows that you can progress through all levels of football, and football is littered with Grant Holts firstly COG is doing his best to rip the league apart, or at least he would be if DJ didn't keep dropping or moving around our most in form striker to accomodate his loanee, right go and find out how many goals JB has scored in his career at this level, its not very good, in fact i'd say it was garbage, just like i said in the post you objected to For the record, i think COG is a good player, love his work rate and attitude. I also think Bothroyd is a good player, has the experience at this level, which can only be a good thing. But, you're not happy....it's either one or the other by the sounds of it. Why can't both be good for us? One has the record of being decent at this level, and the other seemingly has the drive to step up. COG scored 2 goals on Tuesday, Bothroyd in the team.....now, is that all about COG, or could that be that extra bit of quality in the squad playing to COG's strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So what is your explanation of how he's been treated by DJ? I think he was dropped for footballing reasons. Dunno why, i don't agree with it...but at the same time i don't think there's a rift between them. and the mods wonder why i get revved up deary me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong mate, i'm not agreeing with dropping COG, that's not my point in this conversation. I'm trying argue that DJ has made some good experienced signings, with proven records in this division. And that he needed to make changes from last season’s squad. The weaknesses were there to see before he introduced Bothroyd and Taylor. But, going back to COG, he should not have dropped him....but hey, COG has given him a headache now. I also hate this perception that DJ has a problem with COG, as though he's secretly hoping COG fails so that he can play his favorites. But it's a team game, and COG is only a threat when we play to his strengths just like any player. Fair comments. I think that some see COG as a big lump of a target man and in the past have questioned his effectiveness in that role. It seems ,somewhat perversely, to me though that he is far better when employed in a football playing side with ball predominantly played on the deck where his mobility and touch for a big 'un are best exploited. Maybe COG and DJ will be good for each other after all. Maybe COG being the character he is will also be good for his strike partner(s) Edited October 4, 2012 by Dagmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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