Homophobia in football

[Guest Big Guns]

This thread sickens me!!!!

Why do the bleeding heart liberals in this country castigate other people for having an opinion that does not fit into to there " my best friend is gay and muslim therefore it makes me a better person" adgenda!!? f..cking arseholes!!!

My opinion on this subject will stay my own

This used to be a country which aloud freedom of speech!!

I agree with the highlighted bit

I think if your gay you should say you are

Hiding it makes you look like your embarrassed to-be gay ,so do you think it's wrong to he gay

It's not 1970 any more its the 21st century

I don't Mind gays just can't stand that one of corrination street..

[wickersleyowl]

I couldnt care less. If a player is gay, it's not an issue. Whether he plays for us, United or Swindon Supermarine.

If he played for united we all know he'd get it in the neck ( and various other places)

[Sonny]

This thread sickens me!!!!

Why do the bleeding heart liberals in this country castigate other people for having an opinion that does not fit into to there " my best friend is gay and muslim therefore it makes me a better person" adgenda!!? f..cking arseholes!!!

My opinion on this subject will stay my own

This used to be a country which aloud freedom of speech!!

You're silencing yourself. If you're that bothered about freedom of speech then spit it out. Nobody is stopping you. You're entitled to think what you like and the 'bleeding heart liberals' are entitled to disagree with you.

Isn't that freedom of speech?

[Sonny]

I want to give my opinion but I'm scared that someone will disagree with me. It's just so awful when they reply with a different opinion to mine. Much worse than prison could ever be. My Grandad fought Hitler to protect our freedom of speech but now it's been taken away by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. I did not see that one coming.

[Handball_!!]

Knowing a gay or 2 is irrelevant to this debate.

I take my nan out sometimes but it doesn't mean I know what it feels like to be able to crochet.

[DJMortimer]

go on then

apologise

I've already acknowledged that the post in question was provocative so I have no problem saying the word... sorry.

But I still don't understand why you have been so hostile to the idea that footballers have avoided being less secretive about their sexuality. Many of them may well prefer privacy and no reasonable person would have any problem with that, some of them may not want to be the flag-bearer for some sort of gay revolution and that's understandable too, but I'm equally certain that many have felt the need to hide their true nature even if they themselves and those immediately around them are comfortable with it.

[metroguy78]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

[Guest Big Guns]

its late

just realised the time

so dont bother dj

a posh mans big guns

night

Take that as a compliment dj

Tbh I've often thought my self ,djmortimer says,the same things as me in a posh way...

[beano]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

Would it offend you if someone shouted that to you?

Personally, I think it makes you a MASSIVE raging homophobe and you have no place in the Sheffield Wednesday family.

What makes this thread interesting to you? Is there anything that has surprised you?

NB. I have only read the last page of this thread.

[Guest Big Guns]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

Do you like body builders ;)

[noddyowl]

I've already acknowledged that the post in question was provocative so I have no problem saying the word... sorry.

But I still don't understand why you have been so hostile to the idea that footballers have avoided being less secretive about their sexuality. Many of them may well prefer privacy and no reasonable person would have any problem with that, some of them may not want to be the flag-bearer for some sort of gay revolution and that's understandable too, but I'm equally certain that many have felt the need to hide their true nature even if they themselves and those immediately around them are comfortable with it.

I agree with all of this. Its easy as a straight man to walk hand in hand with the wife, but if i was a gay footballer it might not be as easy for me to have public displays of affection with my partner. I dont believe its a case of them having to make a big song and dance about coming out, bt even enjoying their partners company in public would turn into a media circus imo

[PopePiusX]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

Context is everything, isn't it?

Abuse from the terraces is one thing - lots of stuff I hear makes me cringe, but DJM (just to distinguish him from our beloved leader) has referred to problems within the game which are a completely different problem.

Edited May 21, 2012 by PopePiusX

[cross owl]

What i find interesting is alleged straight people deciding that if you use words like puff to mean nesh you are a hompophobe and should be shot , when gay lads use the same words to mean the same things . Don't you just love the self righteous brigade of look at me everyone all others should be shot for using certain words but i never do as i am ppeeerrrrffffeeeecccctttt .

[PopePiusX]

What i find interesting is alleged straight people deciding that if you use words like puff to mean nesh you are a hompophobe and should be shot , when gay lads use the same words to mean the same things . Don't you just love the self righteous brigade of look at me everyone all others should be shot for using certain words but i never do as i am ppeeerrrrffffeeeecccctttt .

Nobody has said that.

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

Good point. If someone called a player a 'gypo' or a 'fat b*stard' no-one really bats an eye-lid. On the other hand, if someone was to shout a homophobic slur, or a racist one, then the vast majority of people would frown upon this. It kind of reeks of double standards. I mean I am all for banter from the terraces, but I think when it becomes too personal then people need to have a look at themselves.

But I think the problems with homophobia in football, and players feeling OK to admit that they are gay, runs deeper than the fear of abuse from the terraces. The players have to consider how their team mates and managers will react to it? How this will affect their on-going opportunities? will they get ostracised? in what is a hyper-masculine environment? Considering that the majority of footballers are in an extremely competitive environment- all this amounts to a difficult position for a gay professional footballer. Some argue that it will take a high profile player to 'come-out' to change opinions and attitudes in the game. I suppose such a talented player would not fear for his career as he would be sort after, whatever (another example of double standards in football). But then again Max Clifford has already highlighted how he has advised some of his high-profile gay players not to reveal their sexuality. As said previously, the problems with homophobia runs deep in football, which is sad but true.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[PopePiusX]

Good point. If someone called a player a 'gypo' or a 'fat b*stard' no-one really bats an eye-lid. However, if someone was to shout a homophobic slur, or a racist slur, then this would get frowned upon. It kind of reeks of double standards really. For me, I am all for banter from the terraces, but I think when it becomes too personal then people need to tone it down a bit.

But I think that problems with homophobia in football, and players feeling OK to admit that they are gay, runs deeper than the fear of abuse from the terraces. The players have to consider how their team mates and managers will react to it? How this will affect their on-going opportunities? will they get ostracised? in what is a hyper-masculine environment? All this amounts to a difficult position for a gay professional footballer. Some may argue that it will take a high profile player to 'come-out' to change opinions and attitudes in professional football. I suppose such a talented player would not fear for his career as he would be sort after, whatever (another example of double standards in football). But then again Max Clifford has already highlighted how he has advised some of his high-profile gay players not to reveal their sexuality. As said previously, the problems with homophobia runs deep in football, sad but true.

That's made my mind up now, if Max Clifford thinks a thing then it's generally the right thing to think the opposite, the odious turd, Good post though.

[DJMortimer]

What a fascinating read.

As an open gay football fan, and have mentioned my sexuality on here before with no fear of being harassed. The thing that is intriguing to me is that a few times at matches, when emotions are hight and the atmosphere is pumping, I have shouted abuse at players telling them to "get stuck and not being such a puff". Does this make me a little homophobic?

I think that if a player did come out it would generally result in abuse but the same level of abuse as if you was ginger, long hair (gypo) or larger waist.

As I said this is a really interesting read for a gay football fan (there's quite a few of us by the way).

This is a very interesting point and one that is often overlooked in the black and white nature of these debates. In the heat of the moment, people will almost routinely refer to someone using the most distinctive characteristic that comes to hand in a split second, be they short, black, smelly, thick, fat or whatever. To use terms like that it might be fairly argued that they are not genuinely prejudiced. Talking that way in a more prolonged and measured context would obviously be very different.

The example you use is particularly fascinating. As a gay man you are clearly not a homophobe, but no doubt shouting something like 'get stuck in you puff' might be seen as such. It just shows that there simply are no clear and distinct lines, no matter how much people try to draw them.

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

What i find interesting is alleged straight people deciding that if you use words like puff to mean nesh you are a hompophobe and should be shot , when gay lads use the same words to mean the same things . Don't you just love the self righteous brigade of look at me everyone all others should be shot for using certain words but i never do as i am ppeeerrrrffffeeeecccctttt .

I get your point. But I guess the argument is why do we associate people who are being nesh with someone being a gay? are we trying to suggest that gay people are more nesh than straight people?

My view is that people have a tendency in society to use discourse (or language) which associates femininity (homosexuality is regular aligned with femininity) with our common behaviors, attitudes, etc. This is the issue here not whether someone from a particular group talks like that, or whether someone else talks the same. The deep lying problems is in the use of language and with this its connotations.

Take for example the boy in the schoolyard who cries because he is upset or has problems. The other boys reaction to this is to say, amongst other things, 'stop being gay!', 'you big puff!' or 'man-up'. These responses can have a long term affect on men in society because from a young age we associate acting such way as being in some ways threatening to our masculinity- in essence, being called a 'puff' can threaten a mans sense of manliness and thus make he act or respond in a certain way. Men then grow up thinking that for instance to cry, or to ask for help- is not what 'real' men should do. Statistically now there are more men than woman committing suicide (i think it is 4 men to 1 woman), and some thinkers argue that this is because of man's false perception of masculinity. Some men would rather end their lives because they feel that they can't talk about their emotions, issues, because, frankly, this is not what men do. These attitudes stem from the way in which people use language in our everyday lives.

So going back to your point it is more to do with understanding why men use certain types of language? some would argue it is so that we can buy into masculinity, mainly out of fear of being associated with femininity. So in society, especially in men, we use discourse/language which associates femininity with things which are deemed to be less manly. Like, for example, 'stop being nesh, you big puff!' In doing so, people believe that this in someway reinforces there position as a man in the world.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[cross owl]

Im not suggesting that gay men are nesh as gay or straight has no bearing on manliness . I just feel that puff means nesh and has nothing at all to do with gay men . But i do agree that men are programmed by upbringing that to ask for help is weak and must be seen to behave in a certain way .

[VictoryBell]

In school they told us that Tsar Nicholas II's son, Alexei suffered from homophobia. Of course, in those days you had little or no chance of "coming out" as you modern young rascals put it. How times have changed!