Homophobia in football

[PopePiusX]

ha ha ha ha ha ha

"he often retaliates with “That’s a straw man argument!”

ha ha ha ha

their words....not mine

Well, I don't think you've attempted to engage in the actual argument, instead providing swathes of anecdotal evidence of your friends, which is great to know and everything but of no real relevance. If you'd like to come up with a different term for what you've done throughout the whole thread, namely oppose a position with a comparable but in fact different situation to attempt to 'win' an argument, then let me know.

Also: You've already said that, more zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But you carry on talking about me, I'll carry on talking about the discussion, seems more the point.

Edited May 20, 2012 by PopePiusX

[PopePiusX]

anyway

I find you shallow and pedantic

and thats a straw man argument

lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvl

to be fair my money was on DJ for the house

It's actually an ad hominem, not a straw man. Jesus.

Fallacy or Phallus-y, up to you.

Edited May 20, 2012 by PopePiusX

[OxonOwl]

Why should a player come out?

Here we go again.

..why should a player have to hide his sexuality?

Exactly. it is about being able to behave like any hetero

why should a player have to announce it?

most pro players will tell you they know several gay footballers

they dont feel they have to wear their sexuality as a badge though

No announcement necessary. Just being able to do what others take for granted without suffering abuse or discrimination.

Why is it so hard to grasp?

[PopePiusX]

pseudo-intellectuals

Someone who uses flashy words and quotes from intellectuals to make them sound a bit more clever than they really are because they don't have original thoughts for themselves.

isnt that basicly what I have been saying though this thread?

no need to announce it

just get on with it

No, you've highlighted that this exists elsewhere in society, but the point is that it doesn't seem to be the case in football! Nobody's desperate for a given footballer to come out, but there is concern that because so very few have that there is a barrier to it.

[DJMortimer]

pseudo-intellectuals

Someone who uses flashy words and quotes from intellectuals to make them sound a bit more clever than they really are because they don't have original thoughts for themselves.

So in other words, you're demonstrating to everyone you are intellectually superior to the bloke you were criticising for supposedly attempting to demonstrate to everyone he was intellectually superior to you? I'm getting dizzy.

[PopePiusX]

So in other words, you're demonstrating to everyone you are intellectually superior to the bloke you were criticising for supposedly attempting to demonstrate to everyone he was intellectually superior to you? I'm getting dizzy.

And did so by quoting somebody else? I'm with you DJ, I'm not sure I understand any more.

[Guest cypress hill]

sorry if this is the wrong section

Darren Bent, could he do a job for us

[DJMortimer]

27 January 2012

Amal Fashanu, niece of Justin Fashanu, the only ever openly gay British professional footballer, meets publicist Max Clifford to ask why no gay player has followed in her uncle's boots in over 20 years.

Publicist Max Clifford said he has helped several Premiership footballers keep their homosexuality a secret in order to preserve their careers and that the attitudes of most people in and around the game remain in the Dark Ages.

See the short video at...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-16723072

This would appear to be someone with first-hand experience directly confirming numerous examples of what some posters insist does not exist. Just because we can come up with some examples between us of people accepting gay friends who are comfortable with their own lifestyle does not prove anything for the wider public or those fearful of dealing with them. I find it highly likely that the large majority couldn't care less as has been claimed numerous times, but they are not the problem.

I'm still bewildered why this has degenerated into such a slanging match. Are we really denying that some people are hostile towards homosexuals and that public figures coming out in a routinely abusive environment might be off-putting? A quick search demonstrates clearly that there is great fear amongst some regarding their sexuality or how it might be perceived elsewhere.

In 2008, ex-Premiership footballer Paul Elliot estimated that at least a dozen Premiership footballers were homosexual but were afraid to "come out" due to a perception that they would receive a negative reaction.

"I've had players over the years who were single and read books and so others [other players] said they must be gay...I think being openly gay would be something very difficult to live with in football.... You can get drunk and beat up your wife and that's quite acceptable, but if someone were to say 'I'm gay', it's considered awful. It's ridiculous."

—Former manager

Alan Smith speaking on 'the last taboo in football'.

Ex-Chelsea manager Luiz Felipe Scolari is on record as stating he would have thrown out of the team a player whom he found to be gay. He made the comments during Brazil's 2002 FIFA World Cup campaign.

In 2010 the FA aimed to shoot a video designed to discourage anti-gay hate-chants on the terraces, however, they reportedly couldn't find a player from the Premier League willing to endorse it and so postponed the video. Pundits believed that players were scared to associate themselves with homosexuality.

In 2005 the Football Association held a summit aimed at tackling homophobia in football. In that same year when the BBC asked all of the twenty Premiership managers their opinions on the issue as part of an investigation all twenty refused.

All of the above came from a brief search of a single web page.

Edited May 20, 2012 by DJMortimer

[SPQR-10]

Gandalf approves this thread

[DJMortimer]

I'd suggest....because as usual you subtley suggested that those who disagree with you have ulterior motives

dont feign suprise when you get a response

I referred to your apparent anger because I was genuinely surprised you seemed quite so irritated in many of your posts. This didn't appear to me to be the sort of subject that would cause such heightened emotions.

And no one has been more guilty than you in this thread of concentrating on personalities rather than issues.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DJMortimer

[Sonny]

Classic Sunday night posting

[DJMortimer]

subtle suggestion?

as i said

dont feign suprise when you get a response

you're just a well spoken big guns

So all the selective reasoning and personal attacks on numerous posters were down to a single clumsily worded question several hours ago !?

[Sonny]

I do have a very Sonny disposition.

[DJMortimer]

thanks for the apology by the way

If that's what you want you can have it. I can see why that question was an irritant. That said, I think you're using it as a bit of an excuse for some of what followed.

[Sonny]

I'm sorry, Deidre.

[Sonny]

Like I haven't got anything better to do than wait for a mention on Owlstalk!

[Freshfish]

This threads about gays In football not big bad bigot steveger who burns catholics at the stake (apparently!).

Not doing the rangers/celtic thingi on here unless Its too defend my club (Rangers),right to my way of life and beliefs, as Its not worth the ban and other measures to silence me (premod etc!),

As for Tony my confused friend, bi, gay, bats for the other side?==== all gay to me, sorry for my ignorance and not really giving a poo to be up on gay terms and ways like you do

You have your opinions and I have mine, thats the way of the world, rightly or wrongly, poo happens

...and my opinion is that 'banter' which some people find so easy to use, is simply a way of slipping bigotry and hatred into a conversation but disguising it as 'lads' humour. And it's easy when we, as heterosexual, white males have had a pretty easy time of doing what we want without years of verbal bullying. And there are times when I am as guilty of it as others but I'm sure we have all witnessed the occasions when banter slides into something far more cruel and violent...I just find the ease with which some people slip into extensive use of derogatory 'banter' or couch behind it has a way of justifying hatred and bigotry as a tool for bullying, as far too convenient.

And that relates directly to the difficulties footballers who are gay have, of actually living a life where they don't need to hide or be fearful about their sexuality or the worry of being 'outed'

Any road up...it's obvious nothing will change in some people minds until maybe they have family or friends who become victims of constant 'banter'. My last word on it...I think we're all slightly strange in many ways and I think every single person has some sort of homosexual tendencies, repressed by a society that is intolerant of people showing or demonstrating affection between the same sexes, although more common in men obviously. Being uncomfortable about it and hiding that behind 'banter' or outright 'hatred' simply serves to highlight the fear of admitting it.

[Buzz]

This thread sickens me!!!!

Why do the bleeding heart liberals in this country castigate other people for having an opinion that does not fit into to there " my best friend is gay and muslim therefore it makes me a better person" adgenda!!? f..cking arseholes!!!

My opinion on this subject will stay my own

This used to be a country which aloud freedom of speech!!

[Freshfish]

...but your opinion is already there...this thread sickens you...come on...nobody is threatening your freedom of speech. Open up and let it out. Offer your opinions and arguments and utilise your freedom of speech.

[siowls]

Do you not think it's a bit gay that 99% of people on here would rather watch athletic men run round a pitch in shorts than spend the afternoon having sexy time with their missus?

Cat, pigeons.