'Bigging teams up'

[The Batman]

At least give Donny his due he stays on and fights his corner,i think the others are working an owlstalk shift pattern

Which is stupid of me as I've got to be up in about 6 hours for work

Cheers Trev.

[DJMortimer]

Because what I say is based on the evidence, what you say is based on your biased view of Irvine. I'm not very well educated, am poor at English, I even use Google Chrome just because of the spell checker just so I don't spend half my time on here being pulled up by the spelling police, but even I know the difference between past and present tense. He "though" meaning at the time, which is in context with the rest of the sentence.

Where is this interview? If it requires a log in to the official site I don't have one.

And did Cardiff put up score updates?

Edited January 27, 2011 by DJMortimer

[SiJ]

If its on Wednesday player (this bloody interview) then I can check it if you want.

I'll be fair and impartial.

[DJMortimer]

If its on Wednesday player (this bloody interview) then I can check it if you want.

I'll be fair and impartial.

Without hearing it in context I just wondered if by saying he 'thought' a point would have been handy he could equally have been referring to any period in the past; such as before kick-off.

Knowing supporters as I do, and recalling the fuss before the game of Cardiff fans who thought we'd rubbed their noses in it as we knocked them out of the play-offs the year before, I simply cannot believe they weren't only too willing to let our bench know what the score at Watford was. And again, did they put updates on the scoreboard in the stadium?

[The Batman]

Where is this interview? If it requires a log in to the official site I don't have one.

And did Cardiff put up score updates?

You mean you're debating something you haven't heard?

Or you've just forgot.

He does say he's he was bitterly disappointed with the result, you'll be pleased to know.

I'll post the link tomorrow if you haven't found it by then, I'm off to bed now, it's an BBC football.

Honestly he is talking about when we equalised, he said he thought (past tense) we'd go on to get a point which could turn out to be very valuable. The interviewer started by saying "the game really put you through the emotions" which is why he was describing his thoughts during the game.

[SiJ]

Alan is very disappointed

There you go DJM.

Make of that what you will

[BobsMagicCalculator]

come on deejay fuzzy bear

you are on a wind up shirley with this post. It's time for Milan to wield the axe this ship has sailed.

[Guest aj_owl]

There's a huge difference and in your OP you've actually answered your own question DJ1.

I actually think you post some great stuff that's counter negative and very correct but what you've posted here is junk of the highest order.

You've quoted sturrock, turner, yorath and shreeves.

All were sacked by the club for under performance (sturrock a bit harshly and too early on my view) and you've now gone and likened their comments to AI's.

All this proves to me that all the above managers have had the same issue as AI.

In essence instead of proving a point FOR Irvine you've actually helped the case AGAINST him.

[DJMortimer]

Alan is very disappointed

There you go DJM.

Make of that what you will

I still don't see conclusive proof that Irvine didn't know the Watford score and wasn't just working on the assumption that a draw was a point closer to survival.

But even if he didn't (and I still find it difficult to accept that supporters around the dugouts weren't making him aware, especially after what they felt had happened the previous season at Hillsborough), how can he be excused for that? Surely that score was absolutely vital to keep up with given it's implications for us on that day?

From the thread Just_Donny linked to :

As was pointed out earlier if he didn't know the score that would be even more worrying it was essential to yesterdays game plan that we kept upto date with how watford were doing.

If the game had stayed at 2-2 it would have been very interesting to see how we approached the last few minutes anyone in their right minds would have been throwing the kitchen sink at cardiff knowing a point would have been useless I cant help but think that we would have been passing the ball backwards and holding on for a draw.

Completely agree; the fact that this shows we hadn't realised before the match the importance of watching the Watford score is really disgraceful, and definitely the worst bit.

This is the EXACT situation I posted and worried about last week ("do the club realise?" post).

If I can take one look at the table and realise that probably the most important part of match preparation last week would be to have someone keeping one eye on the Watford score, why can the manager not? It actually is worse, as it shows that NO ONE at the club had the brains to think through a pretty simple situation.

I was at the game, knew that Watford were winning 3-0 nil, and a tiny tiny part of me was pleased when Cardiff made it 3-2. Of all the ways to watch Wednesday go down, then seeing them hold on for a point that was completely irrelevant would have been incredibly painful.

Not knowing the Watford score throughout the match is really really awful.

Just seen the interview on the BBC website, and even though I want to, it's really difficult to read it any other way.

I took one look at the table after the QPR-Watford game last Tuesday, and thought "right, that means now that obviously we'll be following the Watford score closely, as it could change our game plan alot"

What's really sickening about this is that maybe you can't expect a footballer manager to think through a situation that's got more than one level of complication, but the fact that NO ONE in the staff realised this really says alot about our club.

[BobsMagicCalculator]

I couldnt be inspired by our manager so I dont know how the players can.

Even recently Brian Laws had the passion, remember the scarf waving against the pigs very well.

Just a bit of passion is all that is needed from managers. All the best ones have it, that special quality, even Wenger when his player gets sent off that wry smile 'I did not see it'. To me the best managers in the world dont have the best coaching badges they have the best charisma

ala

Big Ron, Mourinho. Ferguson, Wenger, Redknapp, Holloway

They all have that magic ingredient - CHARISMA

[Guest aj_owl]

Ps the managers quoted had far worse squads available to them than what we have now.

We have a strike force of mellor, Morrison and when such comments were made Tudgay who are proven at levels above where we are.

Other managers should be worrying what we have, not us worrying about Northampton in the FA cup because we saw what they did at Anfield two months ago.

The point you are making us redundant based on AI saying this is a team he would be happy with in the championship that currently he can't help compete in the league below.

[Guest S13OWL]

If he wants to talk about the opposition, why not just say 'Hereford are in good form ... I'm sure they'll think they have a chance of an upset, but I'm confident that if my boys play to their potential we'll cause them problems'.

He NEVER talks about what we're going to do ... it's always about the opposition.

Has to go. End of.

[The Batman]

I still don't see conclusive proof that Irvine didn't know the Watford score and wasn't just working on the assumption that a draw was a point closer to survival.

But even if he didn't (and I still find it difficult to accept that supporters around the dugouts weren't making him aware, especially after what they felt had happened the previous season at Hillsborough), how can he be excused for that? Surely that score was absolutely vital to keep up with given it's implications for us on that day?

From the thread Just_Donny linked to :

Well that's a different argument. You originally said "The most infamous example of his negative mindset was openly admitting that he was hoping to come away from Cardiff in the penultimate game of last season..." which never happened, OK so it's one of those Owlstalk myths that float about but it is not true.

Now you're changing your argument and making the point that he should've been keeping an eye on Watford's score. Point is he never claimed he was hoping or playing for a draw, he was speaking about his emotions during the game after we equalised with 13 minutes to go, which lasted a few minutes, then they regained the lead!

A game we started with a front 3 of JJ, Varney and Tudgay and ended with 4 attackers on. Jeffers, Esajas, Clarke and Tudgay. Which probably indicates we went to win the game (obviously) which would've been enough to keep us in it no matter what Watford or Palace did. Just looking for the match report and saw this from the build up form Grant "We are not going to rely on luck or any favours. We are trying to keep things in our own hands by concentrating on our own performances and getting three points." It didn't work out but checking another score wouldn't made a difference, if the plan was to win and not rely on others.

Pointless debate anyway, old news. It does show how things can be viewed from different angles, and shows you believed something that is not true, just because some people on here say it now and then.

[BRUCE LEE]

APOLOGIST OF NEGATIVITY

DJ1 I loved your 'Dour, Negative football' post after the Bristol league game where you showed us all up to be a bunch of moaners. Very clever it was - kept repeating that phrase throughout the thread as you rubbed it into us all that this team under this manager are nothing of the sort.

Oddly I haven't seen a repeat of you posting like that since, possibly due to fact we haven't won a game in the league since, playing 'Dour, negative and losing football.'

Bonfire officially pissed on.

[Guest johnowls]

it's ok talking about the other team as that's just being polite and sportsman like.

It's worrying about too much and making the players edgy/nervous that's the problem.

we need to say flip it were better than these and take the game to them.

[brian joicey]

i haven't read all of this thread DJ1 but can you pick out a single article where AI 'bigs up' OUR/HIS OWN team. you know something like 'i understand the relative merits of ABC' (not the pop group either!) 'but if we concentrate on our own game/strengths then we should have too much for them' or 'let them worry about us' or 'we won't underestimate them but i'm more concerned about what WE do rather than the opposition' .. bet you can't find a single solitary one ???

gonna keep an eye on this.... can anyone (or DJ1) find an example?????????????

[Last_Great_Hope]

All the responses in this thread are fair enough - but what people don't seem to appreciate is that the Press Conference is not aimed at the players - its aimed at the fans and media. AI doesnt conduct his team talks via the media - he does these in the dressing room direct to the players.

I don't even bother listening to ANY pre-match football press conferences. With the exception of Mourinho and Holloway, they are ALL dull, boring and not worth watching.

What does it actually matter what he is saying in the Press Conference anyway? No one has yet put forward a coherent arguement that what AI says in the Press Conference effects the players.

Before you all start - 1 ing me - Im not being an apologist - the last few weeks have convinced me he isnt the right man for the job. The results have not been good enough and for me that is the SOLE reason why he should go.

[i used to be sc_owl]

There's a story I remember from a while back (and forgive me, I might have got the people involved wrong - but the point remains the same)...

A young Kevin Keegan is nervous about playing against Bobby Moore, so his manager takes him to one side and tells him "don't worry about Moore, he's past it. He's lost his pace and you can turn him easily. "

Keegan goes out, wins man of the match and scores a couple. After the game his manager says to him "That Bobby Moore, he's still got it hasn't he? He was great out there today."

Basically telling Keegan that his opponent was great, but he was better.

[brian joicey]

All the responses in this thread are fair enough - but what people don't seem to appreciate is that the Press Conference is not aimed at the players - its aimed at the fans and media. AI doesnt conduct his team talks via the media - he does these in the dressing room direct to the players.

I don't even bother listening to ANY pre-match football press conferences. With the exception of Mourinho and Holloway, they are ALL dull, boring and not worth watching.

What does it actually matter what he is saying in the Press Conference anyway? No one has yet put forward a coherent arguement that what AI says in the Press Conference effects the players.

Before you all start - 1 ing me - Im not being an apologist - the last few weeks have convinced me he isnt the right man for the job. The results have not been good enough and for me that is the SOLE reason why he should go.

i refer you to my question/post, show me one example of AI 'bigging' our players up (to the press or otherwise). it's his natural demeanour - negative/dour

Edited January 28, 2011 by brian joicey

[DeeJayOne]

OK - now to counter the points that Irvine spends more time bigging up the opposition than talking about our own team:

Let's take a few random Irvine pre-match articles and compare how much he talks bout our team compared to theirs (green text, our team - red text, their team), starting with the Yeovil one and random from thereon in:

http://www.swfc.co.uk/page/Gaffers/0,,10304~2272959,00.html

Owls manager Alan Irvine has hailed the impact of the new additions to the squad and is pleased with the options he has ahead of this weekend's trip to the capital.

Wednesday take on Leyton Orient on Saturday with new signings Gary Madine and Mark Reynolds pushing to make their Owls debut.

Fellow January arrivals THE RADIATOR and Michael Morrison have made strong starts since arriving in S6 and the Wednesday manager believes the new additions fit the bill of what he is looking for in a player.

He said: "I'm really pleased with the players we have got in so far. They tick a lot of boxes in terms of the profile of players we should be looking at; young, hungry, bags of potential, keen to improve and want to learn.

"The more players you get that are flexible and adaptable, the more options you have in terms of different styles and systems that you can play.

"They're players that have already done it at this level and above so I think as we go on we will have various options in the ways we can play."

Meanwhile, the Owls are looking strong ahead of the trip to Orient on Saturday with only Jon Otsemobor sidelined through a calf injury.

Irvine added: "We've got Lewis Buxton and Giles Coke both training, Mark Reynolds came to us with a slight hamstring strain but he's trained this week and, providing there is no reaction, we've got no concerns over him.

"Leyton Orient have had some very good results recently. They knocked Norwich out of the FA Cup away from home so it will be a difficult game.

"They are in good form and have a lot of flexibility whatever team they put on the pitch and if we let them get it down and start passing it then they can give you problems."

http://www.swfc.co.uk/page/Gaffers/0,,10304~1984320,00.html

Sheffield Wednesday manager Alan Irvine received a big boost on Thursday when skipper Darren Purse came through training unscathed and so too did Jermaine Johnson, Francis Jeffers and Tommy Miller.

The experienced quartet have recovered from hamstring strains and could feature when the Owls host Leicester on Saturday in a crunch Championship clash.

Irvine said: "Darren Purse trained today and came through without any problems so we are delighted with that. Jermaine Johnson and Franny Jeffers trained as well and Tommy Miller got another session so it's looking a lot healthier on the injury front."

The SWFC gaffer has intimated that there could be changes in the ranks when ex-Owl Nigel Pearson brings his high-flying Foxes to Hillsborough.

Wednesday are still smarting from the heavy defeat suffered at Reading last Saturday that saw them slip back into the relegation zone.

Irvine reasoned: "When you have a result like last week, you have to think about what the alternatives are. As I always do, I will be looking very hard at the options and alternatives that we have.

"We were in a perilous position when we came here and we got off to a great start. I said at the time that we needed to win 11 games in order to survive and I still believe that to be the case.

"We now need to win another six games, so nothing has changed in that respect. In fact, the ratio of games we need to win is almost exactly the same. We have shown that we can win games if we go about our jobs properly."

Summing up his press call ahead of one of the Owls' biggest games of the season so far, Irvine paid tribute to the level of support he has witnessed from Wednesdayites since he took the reins in January.

He added: "I've said the players have to be mentally tough and the fans may have to be mentally tough as well. They can help us, there's no question about it, they have helped us already and there is no way I could criticise them for the support they have given us.

"I haven't come across anyone who has not been supportive and positive. The support that I have had in my short time here has been terrific. It's blown me away actually because of the numbers and the intensity of the support and I hope that continues."

http://www.swfc.co.uk/page/Gaffers/0,,10304~1984320,00.html

Alan Irvine will leave no room for complacency as the Owls head into the first of three consecutive home games against Blackpool tonight.

The Owls boss is keen to stress that nothing should be taken for granted as Wednesday look to bounce back from a frustrating defeat at Nottingham Forest on Saturday.

And the manager has been buoyed by the fact that his squad came through the City Ground test unscathed.

"We don't have any new injuries and everyone who played at the weekend has trained yesterday and again today so I am delighted with that," Irvine said.

The Scot was particularly pleased with Frank Simek's first start since his arrival at the helm too.

"Frank Simek put in a very good performance against two very difficult opponents," Irvine insisted. "He saw Nathan Tyson off, which is not easy because he is rapid, and then had the misfortune of having Paul Anderson come on who is also very, very quick but again coped very well with him.

"I have spoken to the medical staff and they don't think there is any problem with Frank playing game after game so hopefully that will be the case. Frank is a really good professional so his preparation for the games will be spot on and his recovery after the games will be spot on as well.

"I knew all about Frank when I was working at Everton because we, along with a lot of other clubs were looking at making him a Premier League player; that's the level he was at then. Obviously injuries have been a setback for him but hopefully he is over those problems now and can start rediscovering that kind of form. If Saturday's anything to go by then we do have a very good player here."

Irvine will be without Francis Jeffers again, who is recovering from a hamstring injury along with Tommy Miller, Lewis Buxton and Jermaine Johnson. But the Owls chief is firmly focused on securing a result against Ian Holloway's team.

"They are tough games coming up," the manager stressed. "People will look at three home games and think we should get out of trouble but you can't assume that in the Championship. The Championship is a very tough division; every team is capable of going anywhere and winning and that applies to the games we have got coming up.

"Blackpool are very close to the play-offs and I expect them to be up there for the remainder of the season. Because of the way they play and the good players they have got at the club. They've had some fantastic results away from home this season. We can't assume that we will win one, two or three of these home games because we have to ensure that we prepare for each game properly and do the best we can."

Despite defeat at Forest, Irvine was encouraged with the performance and feels it is something to build on for the upcoming games in S6.

"I know that we have good players and when those players are playing well I know we can be an attacking force. There were a lot of positives to come from the match on Saturday and we need that kind of level of performance in order to get the wins we need to make sure we are in this division next season," he added.

http://www.swfc.co.uk/page/Gaffers/0,,10304~2040050,00.html

Sheffield Wednesday manager Alan Irvine will only name his team to face Crystal Palace on Sunday when he sees fit.

The Owls face a titanic tussle against the Londoners, at the end of which either Wednesday or the Eagles will be facing League One football next season.

Irvine has a full squad from which to select and he insists that a plethora of factors will determine his starting line-up.

He said: "There are many factors to influence team selection, the list can be as long as your arm. I think the average fan picks a team in about two minutes but managers have all sorts of things to consider and for a game like this, you have to consider who can handle the occasion.

"The team is getting close to being picked but you have to look at the training each day, you have to then make sure that everybody is going to be fit and able to put the kind of performance in on Sunday that we are going to need. So I would expect that my team will be picked by tonight/tomorrow morning."

Even the Wednesday players themselves are still to be told the team that will decide the 2010/11 destiny of the club. Opponents Palace are thought to be in a similar situation as the clock counts down on the biggest game of the Championship season so far.

Irvine added: "I've not decided yet on when to tell the players. The easiest way of all is to tell the players tomorrow morning, do the work on the training ground and send them away. But you have to think about all the factors that could mean that is maybe the wrong decision.

"And, of course, there's the fact that people are having to think about it for a little bit longer for what is already a very high pressurised situation. It's something that I have to bear in mind.

"The other thing is that if we are planning on doing something a little bit different, I don't really want Paul (Hart) to know. And unfortunately, things seem to find a way of getting themselves out these days an awful lot quicker than in the past.

"But everyone is fit, we have a full squad to pick from, and that is a terrific situation."

Again, entirely at random - you can go through and do the same excercise yourself on 'The Manager' pages on the OS. I will admit, they are all editorialised but having seen some of these pre-match press meetings I can honestly say that's how the conversations go.