Alan Irvine

[BIG D]

It's like trying to get the Warren Commission to look at ALL of the evidence rather than just those bits they want to see.

You mean like saying Burnleys record was poo poo just before Laws pitched up and ignoring the fact that they were actually 14th at the time?

[DJMortimer]

I think its quite a fine line though, had the team not made mistakes against Cov and Bristol City we would be in a safe position and Alan Irvine wouldnt really be in question.

That's the problem when you are essentially playing defensively and hoping for a lucky break of sorts to win it. If that moment of inspiration, bad luck or idiocy comes at your end of the pitch you'll invariably not get that outcome. And by setting up so cautiously you are basically ensuring that the balance of possession and territory will be against you, thus making it more likely that the key moments of the game will be in your half rather than the opponent's.

That's why Ian Wright was so vital to the Arsenal method back in the early 1990s. He enabled them to make that style of play work for them on the back of the strong defence. It was also England's downfall in some of the biggest games under Sven Goran Eriksson.

A sequence of 1-1 and 0-1 scorelines tell their own story.

[DJMortimer]

You mean like saying Burnleys record was poo poo just before Laws pitched up and ignoring the fact that they were actually 14th at the time?

One win in twelve games just cannot be ignored when judging how good that team is. No matter who the manager was they would have almost certainly been in a relegation battle. They might have made more of a fight of it with someone else in charge but so what? Why are you obsessing about Laws? We all know he's not good enough to be at that level so why is it an issue to SWFC?

[Bluesteel]

That's the problem when you are essentially playing defensively and hoping for a lucky break of sorts to win it. If that moment of inspiration, bad luck or idiocy comes at your end of the pitch you'll invariably not get that outcome. And by setting up so cautiously you are basically ensuring that the balance of possession and territory will be against you, thus making it more likely that the key moments of the game will be in your half rather than the opponent's.

That's why Ian Wright was so vital to the Arsenal method back in the early 1990s. He enabled them to make that style of play work for them on the back of the strong defence. It was also England's downfall in some of the biggest games under Sven Goran Eriksson.

A sequence of 1-1 and 0-1 scorelines tell their own story.

I agree that it has made wins hard to come by, but through throwing the kitchen sink at them like we had been doing earlier we were needing 2 or 3 goals to win a game.

The way I see it is, Irvine is wary of the players lack of confidence and needs to keep it very tight and very basic and has been hoping to grind through, and had another result gone our way it couldve worked (and may still work). He blatantly has no confidence in the likes of Esajas and co on the bench as he doesnt bring them on.

Basically, I dont think he rates a great deal of the team, but is having to do the best with what he has but wants to keep their chins up with comments early doors such as "if I have to work with this team for the rest of the season I'll be happy" as he knew he wouldnt have much scope to change it.

IF in 6-8 months the same thing is still happening then I too will be getting restless with AI, but at the moment I think its premature.

[trask43]

If we are relegated we must, must get rid of Irvine and not make the same mistake as we did with Turner (let him build his own team, we were down anyway , was an impossible job etc etc - deja vu...)

If we stay up - he gets another season.

This. We cant afford to make the same mistakes over and over again irvine was brought here to keep us up if he accomplishes this fine he's earned the right to stay. If we go down he's failed and for me is the wrong man for the job. Since hes been here Ive seen nothing to suggest hes the man for the job long term. If by some miracle we stay up he'll still be gone in the next year or so.

[BIG D]

Why are you obsessing about Laws? We all know he's not good enough to be at that level so why is it an issue to SWFC?

I was responding to Innes,(who was the first to bring Laws into this thread) who said he would rather have Laws in charge for this game.

No one else mentioned the thrower until er.. you

Anyway bugger off.

[DJMortimer]

I agree that it has made wins hard to come by, but through throwing the kitchen sink at them like we had been doing earlier we were needing 2 or 3 goals to win a game.

The way I see it is, Irvine is wary of the players lack of confidence and needs to keep it very tight and very basic and has been hoping to grind through, and had another result gone our way it couldve worked (and may still work). He blatantly has no confidence in the likes of Esajas and co on the bench as he doesnt bring them on.

Basically, I dont think he rates a great deal of the team, but is having to do the best with what he has but wants to keep their chins up with comments early doors such as "if I have to work with this team for the rest of the season I'll be happy" as he knew he wouldnt have much scope to change it.

IF in 6-8 months the same thing is still happening then I too will be getting restless with AI, but at the moment I think its premature.

I agree with you to a large extent but the argument needs to be more sophisticated. Some of the drama queens on the site (that's not aimed at you by the way) often respond to arguments by an hysterical polar shift to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. So if I say we're playing too defensively they are only capable of comparing it to all out reckless attack. There are options available in between.

You're right about the players outside his own preferred 12-14. But what has happened to them? This same bunch of players (with only a few exceptions) proved perfectly capable at this level for a prolonged period until last October. Why are they suddenly so utterly hopeless?

[DJMortimer]

I was responding to Innes,(who was the first to bring Laws into this thread) who said he would rather have Laws in charge for this game.

No one else mentioned the thrower until er.. you

Anyway bugger off.

Can I put 'flounce' again?

[BIG D]

Can I put 'flounce' again?

If you wish

Anyway I wish we still had :st2:

That's where my heart lies.

[Guest S13OWL]

Irvine has had enough games to prevent relegation, Preston sacked Irvine after a very poor run they appointed Ferguson who has halted the slide to the relegation zone. So that's 3 managers who have had half a season and have done what was asked, Preston,Reading,Barnsley all now safe and will be playing championship football next season due to their new managers doing what was asked of them. Do you think Irvine could have turned Reading and Barnsley round?

Preston were comfortably in midtable when Irvine left, they're in the same position now?!

Reading have a top 6 squad without any question, they were never going to go down.

Robins has had over 3/4 of the season to turn it round. And Barnsley have in their squad what we don't have - a goalscorer. Watch them struggle next season when Bogdanovic leaves.

As for us, I think it's a miracle we're still in with a shout of staying up. Let's face it, we were on 18 points at Xmas, it looked like we'd be down by Easter! To get as many points as we have done with a squad who, for some unknown reason, have decided not to give a complete sh*t this season, isn't that bad an achievement from 'Mr Negative'.

If we go down I'm confident he'll take us back up, and as for people who say they'd rather have the tactical genius that is Brian Laws ... flip off.

[BIG D]

Irvine has had enough games to prevent relegation, Preston sacked Irvine after a very poor run they appointed Ferguson who has halted the slide to the relegation zone.

Irvine @ Wednesday W7 - D6 - L8

Ferguson @ PNE W6 - D7 - L9

So with a better squad he has a worse record. FAIL

[Imre Varadi's Conker]

I like Sheffield Wednesday.

[Arthur Bach]

If you wish

Anyway I wish we still had :st2:

That's where my heart lies.

We've already got him.

All he's done is brushed his hair and lost some weight.

[Mikes]

Since Irvine came in we've got about 8th most points.

enough said

[BIG D]

Since Irvine came in we've got about 8th most points.

enough said

Yeah, but that proves flip all - it's just stats.

or summat

[DJMortimer]

Since Irvine came in we've got about 8th most points.

enough said

Maths FAIL.

[cardiffowl06]

JJ's not appeared?

WTF?