Athelwulf Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, WalthamOwl said: Any other owners got in such a mess with FFP that they have had to sell the ground? Have we ever started a season on -12 points under anyone else? He may be a nice bloke but he has turned our club in to a laughing stock, the things that are currently happening to us are a disgrace and they are down to him. No, because they never tried to get us up. Unless you can land a top manager, you buy your way out. A third of this league have parachute money, so you have to gamble. And unless the rules change we'll have to keep on doing it until we're promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, The_Limit_Owl said: I’d say he’s up there with the best, 2 play off campaigns (but we can’t talk about them), keeps the club funded (but we can’t talk about it), keeps non-playing staff in jobs through a crippling pandemic (can’t praise him for it though), funds and backs his managers (which is a bad thing apparently), paid for a new state of the art pitch to replace the quagmire that it was before (as above). Our fans are like spoilt brats, they want everything on a plate for nowt. It's a pretty low bar to be fair. And who says we can't talk about the things you brought up? You literally just did. They're brought up regularly. And you forgot the big telly and the big cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Athelwulf said: No, because they never tried to get us up. Unless you can land a top manager, you buy your way out. A third of this league have parachute money, so you have to gamble. And unless the rules change we'll have to keep on doing it until we're promoted. you have to gamble but have a business plan, sell players, buy players with a resale value, not sell the ground and put it in the wrong years account etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, Nero said: Chansiri fans who tell us how great he is? Wheres that happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, The_Limit_Owl said: I’d say he’s up there with the best, 2 play off campaigns (but we can’t talk about them), keeps the club funded (but we can’t talk about it), keeps non-playing staff in jobs through a crippling pandemic (can’t praise him for it though), funds and backs his managers (which is a bad thing apparently), paid for a new state of the art pitch to replace the quagmire that it was before (as above). Our fans are like spoilt brats, they want everything on a plate for nowt. 2 Play off campaigns that were built on the back of money we couldn't afford. Like having a holiday of a lifetime but as a result you cant afford your mortgage repayments and you have to sell your house to pay for it. Yes topping up wages of non playing staff wasn't a bad thing but he is a multi millionaire still taking 80% of the costs from the tax payer. Yes I know he didn't have to top up the wages and a good thing he topped up the wages but I bet the money it cost him was probably equivalent to me of £5. A decent pitch should be minimum we should expect for the ticket prices. I dont think he is a malevolent, just a bloke who doesn't know his arse from his elbow when running a football club. Apart from Dave Allen suing fans would say he is the worst chairman we have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, The_Limit_Owl said: Our fans are like spoilt brats, they want everything on a plate for nowt. Or maybe some of them think paying the highest prices in the Division to watch a team starved of investment is a bit steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, The_Limit_Owl said: Are you taking the proverbial? When did FFP and P & S rules for the EFL start? I’ll give you a clue, 2010/11 season! MM was never gonna fling tenners about was he! so you think he isn’t to blame for the situation we are in, starting the season on -12. It’s all the big bad EFL’s fault isn’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, WalthamOwl said: you have to gamble but have a business plan, sell players, buy players with a resale value, not sell the ground and put it in the wrong years account etc. How many teams have been promoted from the Championship in the past 20 years who 1) Didn’t have parachute payments 2) Weren’t found to have broken PnS rules I don’t know the answer, but it’d be interesting if someone does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Essix Blue said: How many teams have been promoted from the Championship in the past 20 years who 1) Didn’t have parachute payments 2) Weren’t found to have broken PnS rules I don’t know the answer, but it’d be interesting if someone does. fair point but how many teams have started on -12 points? Obviously the parachute payments give a massive advantage but clubs without need to be ran accordingly. From the sounds of it we haven’t slightly broken FFP we have massively gone over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, The_Limit_Owl said: I’m trying to illustrate (badly by the looks) that only the bad and negative stuff gets magnified and scrutinised, any of the good and positive stuff gets flippantly dismissed. I would say it's the other way round and selling the ground, ticket prices, massive losses, embargoes, a twelve point deduction, Club 1867, weeing off box holders, D Taxis, 10 year season tickets and a less than exemplary transfer policy have been dismissed because he "had a go". But each to their own. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, The_Limit_Owl said: Opinions I guess, to me he is absolutely nowhere near the worst chairman we’ve had. Ill tell you what, I wish we’d had DC back when McGee was chairman and he refused to let Wilko have any money to spend, Wilko then went to Leeds, was given the money and they won the league! I wonder what players we would have bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: fair point but how many teams have started on -12 points? Obviously the parachute payments give a massive advantage but clubs without need to be ran accordingly. From the sounds of it we haven’t slightly broken FFP we have massively gone over it. My point is some fans argue you can’t get promoted without either parachute money or taking a financial gamble. It’d be interesting to see how many have done it without either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Essix Blue said: How many teams have been promoted from the Championship in the past 20 years who 1) Didn’t have parachute payments 2) Weren’t found to have broken PnS rules I don’t know the answer, but it’d be interesting if someone does. Well, Leeds and pigs to start with. They'll be load of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, rickygoo said: In terms of progress in the league Mandaric I suppose. I haven't really liked any of them! Lee's hearts as in the right place but he needs a bit of luck. But the 12 point deduction and especially the prices do it for me. Each to their own of course. I think the 12 point deduction could have been managed better - both in terms of timings, as we could have took the hit in 2018/19 without too much hassle. Of course this ignores the financial issues in the first place, with the £32m loses in 2017/18 in particularly. However, in context even SUFC lost £21m in 2018/19, and therefore, without some further player sales would have been in danger of FFP this season, should they had not gone up. They, like others racking up big debt, managed to get out in the PL; we didn't, so DC looked at what Reading/Aston Villa and Derby had done and simply use the ground sale scam as a way to 'invest' £38m into the club. The other issue is, unlike SUFC in selling Brooks, we sat on the 'prize' assets like FF, Reach et al even when it was obvious we could and should have moved them on. If it is purely DC's decision not to sell players, then he quickly needs to change his course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, WalthamOwl said: you have to gamble but have a business plan, sell players, buy players with a resale value, not sell the ground and put it in the wrong years account etc. I'm definitely with you re' the accounts. The problem Chansiri has faced is that we're a club which has suffered chronic under-investment for many years. Youth policies take many years to come to fruition, and we must rank as one of the most unsuccessful clubs in this country where youth development is concerned. He couldn't fall back on youth for playing staff, or to sell to help balance the books. Offers came in for players, but from clubs rivalling us for promotion. Chansiri went for it, but was thwarted by Hooper's injury. I'm not saying Chansiri has made no mistakes, but he's had a go. In the 15 years prior to his arrival we had no chance of going up, and graced the Third on two occasions. Ultimately, in our situation you have to gamble. And any chairman who does that is either going to be a hero or a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Mcguigan said: Well, Leeds and pigs to start with. They'll be load of others. Wolves, Watford, Hull, Cardiff, Brighton, Huddersfield, Southampton, Reading........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mcguigan said: Wolves, Watford, Hull, Cardiff, Brighton, Huddersfield, Southampton, Reading........ There’s a few financial gamblers in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, McRightSide said: There’s a few financial gamblers in there... Yeh think there is...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossyOwl Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Things to take away from all this: 1. We need someone to actually help the chairman. Good bloke, but needs guidance to not mess the club up. He’s sailed close to the wind there and needs support. 2. Charlton can pipe down now. This point deduction should have been applied in the 18/19 season and that’s that. It’s embarrassing that the EFL tried to wait to apply a deduction until we were in a place where they could potentially relegate us. That’s like waiting until someone murders 4 people instead of 1, so you can apply the death penalty rather than just a prison sentence! 3. Is Sep Blatter a non exec Director at the EFL or something?? The EFL are making FIFA look competent....ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mcguigan said: Well, Leeds and pigs to start with. They'll be load of others. Leeds and the Blades have both got much better managers than we've had. Bielsa was considered by some of the top clubs in Europe before being recruited by Leeds. We simply don't have the stature to attract a manager of his standing. The Blades are just incredibly lucky, doubly so because Wilder is British. You could take 20 managers from the lower leagues and not get a Wilder. If he'd got an "o" on the end of his name he'd be long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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