DJMortimer Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, struckanerve said: Had his moments of brilliance but for me he went missing too often and offered no physical presence. He wasn't a tighthead prop or NFL linebacker. What physical presence does Lionel Messi carry? He seems to have had a reasonable career though. How about Chris Waddle? The departures of Di Canio and Carbone highlighted just how much we were dependent on them for creating anything. Once 'Mr Chairman' and his lickspittle had chased them off we rapidly plummeted from being simply mediocre to utterly woeful. Edited May 15, 2020 by DJMortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest struckanerve Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, DJMortimer said: He wasn't a tighthead prop or NFL linebacker. What physical presence does Lionel Messi carry? He seems to have had a reasonable career though. How about Chris Waddle? The departures of Di Canio and Carbone highlighted just how much we were dependent on them for creating anything. Once 'Mr Chairman' and his lickspittle had chased them off we rapidly plummeted from being simply mediocre to utterly woeful. The difference is Waddle and Messi were/is world class and were/are worth taking the physical presence hit. Carbone was nowhere near their level. He didn't really do much at any club before or after us, being moved on after 20-30 games, always a bad sign. I do agree we replaced them with even worse quality. Edited May 15, 2020 by struckanerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Very skillful but equally as hard working. Maybe lacked the end product in terms of goals but I was surprised he never moved to a top club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 minute ago, struckanerve said: The difference is Waddle and Messi were/is world class and were/are worth taking the physical presence hit, Carbone was nowhere need their level. He didn't really do much at any club before or after us, being moved on after 20-30 games, always a bad sign. That's a lot of special pleading attempting to thinly veil the fact that you just don't like him. Your choice, but hardly conclusive when it comes to judging a footballer. The logical inference from your strange obsession with physique is that if you are not built like a shaved Sasquatch, then you'd better be one of the best players of your generation or otherwise you're just a waste of time. I'd argue there's a very large middle ground that Carbone comes into. It's good to see you grudgingly accepting Messi in your team though ("worth taking the physical presence hit" ), despite him not being the prototype for a WWE match. Who cares what Carbone did elsewhere? That's just irrelevant. Des Walker was not well regarded at Sampdoria, Leeds were not bothered when Tom Lees left, Fernando Forestieri was a bit part player at Watford. Many of those from our legendary 1990s squad saw their careers rather peter out once they'd left us. As for Carbone himself, he was a hero at Bradford when he wrote off a ton of money that was due to him when that club went into administration. He may have been inconsistent, petulant and a drifter in career terms. No one claims he is in the reckoning for the Premier League's best ever. But when he was here, there was no doubt he was far better than just about everyone else in the squad. We did not struggle in the bottom half of the league because of him. Look instead at Atherton, Booth, Nolan, Briscoe, Sonner, Nicol, Humphreys, Newsome... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest struckanerve Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: He may have been inconsistent, petulant and a drifter in career terms. No one claims he is in the reckoning for the Premier League's best ever. But when he was here, there was no doubt he was far better than just about everyone else in the squad. We did not struggle in the bottom half of the league because of him. Look instead at Atherton, Booth, Nolan, Briscoe, Sonner, Nicol, Humphreys, Newsome... That was pretty much what I said in my original post. I said we struggled due to inconsistant talented players and championship level tryers. I didn't dislike the guy, he had his moments, but overall I think we could have spent the transfer fee / wages on a better player. You are correct that I don't like small players unless they are exceptional. The downfall of our recent team in the final vs Hull: bullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 39 minutes ago, struckanerve said: I don't like small players unless they are exceptional. The thing is Carbone was exceptional for us. Its others around him that were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambownumber5 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 On 14/05/2020 at 21:01, Hitcat said: Blur are better. You must be a Southerner Hitcat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitcat Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 2 hours ago, lambownumber5 said: You must be a Southerner Hitcat? Just a better taste in music. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentwalker Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Just makes you wonder at the time. What if Danny Wilson never managed Wednesday? Things could have turned out so differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls2k Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 14/05/2020 at 21:27, sMacLean said: I remember seeing it reported Carbone was offered £32,000 a week to try to keep him. And yet he was on £45k at Bradford shortly after, shows how our financial clout (or lack thereof) compared. It's fitting that everything I've heard about Carbone from players and managers through podcasts etc was how much of a model pro he was, even said so by Robbie Blake in this interview. This was despite Carbone in being on well more than any other player in their team and it seems they didn't resent that one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Carbones wage and house crippled Bradford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsie Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 15/05/2020 at 17:46, pazowl55 said: The thing is Carbone was exceptional for us. Its others around him that were not. I'm sure I can remember, probably around 2002 when Sibon flicked the ball over his head for Quinn to run on to. Quinn had stopped running. Sibon looked stupid. Sometimes, you need better players around you (i.e. the ones that are expecting that bit of skill and are in position for it) to make you look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: Carbones wage and house crippled Bradford To be fair, there were several signings at the time that contributed to that (Stan Collymore, Dan Petrescu), not just Carbone. However, when the club's back was against the wall with the administrators, he wrote off around £3m that he was legally entitled to demand. I've no idea if the others did anything similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just now, Burnsie said: I'm sure I can remember, probably around 2002 when Sibon flicked the ball over his head for Quinn to run on to. Quinn had stopped running. Sibon looked stupid. Sometimes, you need better players around you (i.e. the ones that are expecting that bit of skill and are in position for it) to make you look good. I remember the first time I saw Sibon and got the same impression. He was a more intelligent player than he was getting credit for because the lower league standard of most of his teammates was just not on the same wavelength. As usual though, some supporters are interested only in goals when it comes to forwards. If you're not scoring them, you're useless and if you are, nothing else is of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsie Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: I remember the first time I saw Sibon and got the same impression. He was a more intelligent player than he was getting credit for because the lower league standard of most of his teammates was just not on the same wavelength. As usual though, some supporters are interested only in goals when it comes to forwards. If you're not scoring them, you're useless and if you are, nothing else is of interest. unless it's a pen. doesnt count oh, and also unless you are quiet all game then pop up and bag the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: To be fair, there were several signings at the time that contributed to that (Stan Collymore, Dan Petrescu), not just Carbone. However, when the club's back was against the wall with the administrators, he wrote off around £3m that he was legally entitled to demand. I've no idea if the others did anything similar. Yeah I heard about that too. It’s more their fault for signing so many expensive players, including half our relegated team. But if that was the kind of money he was after then it probably explains why some bigger clubs didn’t snap him up. Edited May 17, 2020 by Bluesteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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