Bannan

[Kraschenbern]

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  First thing people will say is that he is our best player for assists and is top ten for that stat in this league.  However, as anyone who's studied mathematics will tell you, stats are easily manipulated.  How good would those stats be if we took set pieces out of the equation, or compared assists to say, minutes on the pitch, or touches of the ball.  Probably wouldn't be so impressive.

 

I'm saying this because, people around me got very excited when he came on today.  But the reality is, in my opinion, he's our biggest problem from a tactical point of view.

 

The Bannan people remember, and rightly so, as one of our best players, was not playing central midfield.  He was on the left, tucking in.  Our central pairing, when Bannan was at his best, was Lee and Hutch. Lee provided movement, forward passing, short passing, triangles, goals, and some defensive qualities.  Hutch provided steel.  And is decent enough in possession.  Bannan offers very few of these qualities.  People say play him next to a beast, it wouldn't make a difference.  He is not a central midfielder.  If anything he should play in the hole behind a lone striker.

 

Pellepussy for all his limitations was no less effective than Bannan today, in fact he's probably more effective cos at least he offers something when we're not in possession.  Bannan does not.

 

If Bannan plays, for me he has to be in a three, and he needs to be the most advanced of the three.  One thing we've not seen in a while IIRC is Lee and Hutch together.  I know Hutch is probably not gonna get picked anytime soon and Lee is no where near his best, but surely those two as a central pairing on paper, would scare the opposition more than Bannan and anyone else.

 

For me Bannan has never been a central midfielder.  I would love to see him on the left, and Hutch and Lee in the middle again, and probably Murphy/Reach on the right.  That is a good midfield with balance.  While ever Bannan is in central midfield we will lack balance.

 

Not saying he's terrible.  But for three seasons I've been saying this and honestly it's driving me a bit nuts.  I used to play anchor in my youth in midfield, at what would now be called an academy, I had three qualities, I could pass, I could shoot from distance, and I could tackle.  Bannan has one of those qualities.  (I'm not saying I was a better footballer than Barry, my mum might argue I was tho ;) )

 

The best thing Monk did today was not start Bannan.  As soon as  he came on, we were immediately 20 yards deeper, his first touch of the game was about level with our Iorfa and Borner.  

 

Again I'm not saying he's a bad footballer.  He is overrated tho, and has never been a starting CM in a two, he just doesn't have the range of abilities required.  

 

What I'd give right now for a K. Lee from 3 years ago.

 

Games are won and lost in central midfield, Bannan would not get in 75% of this divisions central midfield pairings.  

 

Obviously there is a lot more wrong than just this issue.  But I really do believe while ever we continue with him in central midfield we won't progress.  I'd sell him tomorrow.  

 

 

 

[Mr Farrell]

12 minutes ago, Kraschenbern said:

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  First thing people will say is that he is our best player for assists and is top ten for that stat in this league.  However, as anyone who's studied mathematics will tell you, stats are easily manipulated.  How good would those stats be if we took set pieces out of the equation, or compared assists to say, minutes on the pitch, or touches of the ball.  Probably wouldn't be so impressive.

 

I'm saying this because, people around me got very excited when he came on today.  But the reality is, in my opinion, he's our biggest problem from a tactical point of view.

 

The Bannan people remember, and rightly so, as one of our best players, was not playing central midfield.  He was on the left, tucking in.  Our central pairing, when Bannan was at his best, was Lee and Hutch. Lee provided movement, forward passing, short passing, triangles, goals, and some defensive qualities.  Hutch provided steel.  And is decent enough in possession.  Bannan offers very few of these qualities.  People say play him next to a beast, it wouldn't make a difference.  He is not a central midfielder.  If anything he should play in the hole behind a lone striker.

 

Pellepussy for all his limitations was no less effective than Bannan today, in fact he's probably more effective cos at least he offers something when we're not in possession.  Bannan does not.

 

If Bannan plays, for me he has to be in a three, and he needs to be the most advanced of the three.  One thing we've not seen in a while IIRC is Lee and Hutch together.  I know Hutch is probably not gonna get picked anytime soon and Lee is no where near his best, but surely those two as a central pairing on paper, would scare the opposition more than Bannan and anyone else.

 

For me Bannan has never been a central midfielder.  I would love to see him on the left, and Hutch and Lee in the middle again, and probably Murphy/Reach on the right.  That is a good midfield with balance.  While ever Bannan is in central midfield we will lack balance.

 

Not saying he's terrible.  But for three seasons I've been saying this and honestly it's driving me a bit nuts.  I used to play anchor in my youth in midfield, at what would now be called an academy, I had three qualities, I could pass, I could shoot from distance, and I could tackle.  Bannan has one of those qualities.  (I'm not saying I was a better footballer than Barry, my mum might argue I was tho ;) )

 

The best thing Monk did today was not start Bannan.  As soon as  he came on, we were immediately 20 yards deeper, his first touch of the game was about level with our Iorfa and Borner.  

 

Again I'm not saying he's a bad footballer.  He is overrated tho, and has never been a starting CM in a two, he just doesn't have the range of abilities required.  

 

What I'd give right now for a K. Lee from 3 years ago.

 

Games are won and lost in central midfield, Bannan would not get in 75% of this divisions central midfield pairings.  

 

Obviously there is a lot more wrong than just this issue.  But I really do believe while ever we continue with him in central midfield we won't progress.  I'd sell him tomorrow.  

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but the day I agree that Joey no tackles is more effective than one of the best midfielders in the division, is the day I give up.

[james o connor]

Bannan is one of biggest on field problems . Loves sitting back, passing backwards , looks good on you tube reel but is actually not very good 

[Kraschenbern]

Mr Farrell.... Is Bannan is renowned for his tackling?  He's way worse when not in possession than Joey.  By a mile.  He offers zero defensively.  He's carried by which ever poor poopydoo has to play alongside him when we don't have the ball.  He has never been one of the best central midfielders in this division, if he was someone would have bought him by now.  Massively limited footballer.  What are you watching?

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, Kraschenbern said:

Mr Farrell.... Is Bannan is renowned for his tackling?  He's way worse when not in possession than Joey.  By a mile.  He offers zero defensively.  He's carried by which ever poor poopydoo has to play alongside him when we don't have the ball.  He has never been one of the best central midfielders in this division, if he was someone would have bought him by now.  Massively limited footballer.  What are you watching?

 

Ask any other club in the division. They'd love him.

 

We are just incompetent in how we use him. He's a ball playing link up midfielder that keeps it ticking. He's never been a deep holding or tackling midfielder, and is totally unsuited to a flat 4.

 

Joey on the other hand can't tackle, can't take corners, and can't read the game. It passes by him, as his speed of thought and anticipation isn't up to this level.

[Kraschenbern]

Just now, Mr Farrell said:

 

Ask any other club in the division. They'd love him.

 

We are just incompetent in how we use him. He's a ball playing link up midfielder that keeps it ticking. He's never been a deep holding or tackling midfielder, and is totally unsuited to a flat 4.

 

Joey on the other hand can't tackle, can't take corners, and can't read the game. It passes by him, as his speed of thought and anticipation isn't up to this level.

Firstly, they wouldn't love him.  He is still here.  If he was so good someone would have bid 10 million by now.  Secondly, you've basically agreed with me.  He's not suited to a flat 4, aka a central 2.  He's not a holding midfielder. Pretty sure I said both those things pretty much.  Massively massively overrated.  Just my opinion tho.  But the people who are obsessed with  Bannan are remembering him at left midfield.  Never been that effective centrally.

[marcx666]

Most of the reason that Bannan has been ineffective these last few months is the tactics. You know, the only tactic Monk knows of having the keeper or defence booting the ball up to the poor b*stard up front, while bypassing the midfield completely, leading to Bannan dropping so deep he is pretty much in the Kop.

Edited February 16, 2020 by marcx666

[Mr Farrell]

2 minutes ago, Kraschenbern said:

Firstly, they wouldn't love him.  He is still here.  If he was so good someone would have bid 10 million by now.  Secondly, you've basically agreed with me.  He's not suited to a flat 4, aka a central 2.  He's not a holding midfielder. Pretty sure I said both those things pretty much.  Massively massively overrated.  Just my opinion tho.  But the people who are obsessed with  Bannan are remembering him at left midfield.  Never been that effective centrally.

 

He's family. We don't sell family.

[Kraschenbern]

2 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

Most of the reason that Bannan has been ineffective these last few months is the tactics. You know, the only tactic Monk knows of having the keeper or defence booting the ball up to the poor b*stard up front, while bypassing the midfield completely, leading to Bannan dropping so deep he is pretty much in the Kop.

Bannan has been stood on the Cb's toes for two seasons.  Way before Monk got involved.

[marcx666]

3 minutes ago, Kraschenbern said:

Bannan has been stood on the Cb's toes for two seasons.  Way before Monk got involved.

Of course he has, mainly because Joey is garbage as a defensive midfield, and as I've been saying for years, which you said in your OP Bannan can't play in a two, especially not when the midfield is bypassed by the crappy tactics. If your ballplaying midfielder isn't given the ball, how is he supposed to play.

[Kraschenbern]

1 minute ago, marcx666 said:

Of course he has, mainly because Joey is garbage as a defensive midfield, and as I've been saying for years, which you said in your OP Bannan can't play in a two, especially not when the midfield is bypassed by the crappy tactics. If your ballplaying midfielder isn't given the ball, how is he supposed to play.

He's supposed to play twenty yards further up the pitch so if we are whacking it up top he can be involved.  It's his choice to go deep.  No manager is telling the team to go long and simultaneously telling his CM to go looking for the ball deep.  That would be insane.  He just likes to be in possession.   Ineffective possession, so he has good stats for pass completion, backwards, to whoever is closest.  I find it nuts people can't see this.  The odd good ball, the rare good corner or free kick.  I really don't get what some people think they're watching.  He needs to be out wide or at another club.  Anyone who thinks differently either hasn't been watching us for the last three years or literally should start following another sport.

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, Kraschenbern said:

He's supposed to play twenty yards further up the pitch so if we are whacking it up top he can be involved.  It's his choice to go deep.  No manager is telling the team to go long and simultaneously telling his CM to go looking for the ball deep.  That would be insane.  He just likes to be in possession.   Ineffective possession, so he has good stats for pass completion, backwards, to whoever is closest.  I find it nuts people can't see this.  The odd good ball, the rare good corner or free kick.  I really don't get what some people think they're watching.  He needs to be out wide or at another club.  Anyone who thinks differently either hasn't been watching us for the last three years or literally should start following another sport.

 

What sport should we start following instead ?

 

Let us know and we'll get right on it.

[marcx666]

3 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

What sport should we start following instead ?

 

Let us know and we'll get right on it.

Unless it's Curling, NEVER Curling.

[Kraschenbern]

1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

What sport should we start following instead ?

 

Let us know and we'll get right on it.

I don't care, just take Bannan with you :)

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, marcx666 said:

Unless it's Curling, NEVER Curling.

 

Or snooker. Hate snooker. Hope he doesn't say we have to watch snooker.

[camffiti]

32 minutes ago, james o connor said:

Bannan is one of biggest on field problems . Loves sitting back, passing backwards , looks good on you tube reel but is actually not very good 

 

You've just described the typical Prem & International midfielder 

[Kraschenbern]

1 minute ago, camffiti said:

 

You've just described the typical Prem & International midfielder 

Yeah...problem with that is we're not a Prem or international team are we.  Different levels of sports require different abilities.  For example, you put a big kid in a team of U11's an they'll suceed cos they are stronger, it doesn't mean they are better footballers.  This division we find ourselfs in is a combative league.  We need players who can compete, not do 500 kick ups.

 

[james o connor]

22 minutes ago, Kraschenbern said:

Bannan has been stood on the Cb's toes for two seasons.  Way before Monk got involved.

And the rest he was doing the same under Carlos . He’s one of the major reasons we are predictable , slow and dull to watch 

[Philb125]

17 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

Of course he has, mainly because Joey is garbage as a defensive midfield, and as I've been saying for years, which you said in your OP Bannan can't play in a two, especially not when the midfield is bypassed by the crappy tactics. If your ballplaying midfielder isn't given the ball, how is he supposed to play.

 

10 minutes ago, Kraschenbern said:

He's supposed to play twenty yards further up the pitch so if we are whacking it up top he can be involved.  It's his choice to go deep.  No manager is telling the team to go long and simultaneously telling his CM to go looking for the ball deep.  That would be insane.  He just likes to be in possession.   Ineffective possession, so he has good stats for pass completion, backwards, to whoever is closest.  I find it nuts people can't see this.  The odd good ball, the rare good corner or free kick.  I really don't get what some people think they're watching.  He needs to be out wide or at another club.  Anyone who thinks differently either hasn't been watching us for the last three years or literally should start following another sport.

I don’t mind a creative player dropping back to get the ball and start things off, as long as they pass it forward though. Look at Swift for them today, came back to his CB’s fairly often, brought the ball out, picked a pass to one of the forward players. 
 

Bannan in the other hand, comes back, takes it from Borner or Iorfa, gives it back to Borner who now has less time after a meaningless one-two, also has one less midfielders to pass to and has to hoof it. 
 

Bannan can’t tackle, track back, mark, head, shoot.... these are not the attributes of one of the best midfielders in the division. Almost every game I think to myself I’d have their CM’s over ours. 

[Philb125]

3 minutes ago, james o connor said:

And the rest he was doing the same under Carlos . He’s one of the major reasons we are predictable , slow and dull to watch 

What I find really odd,  is today they had Swift doing a great impression of Bannan. But he was finding players to pass to from the CB area that he collected it from. We didn’t mark him or close him down like others do to us or bannan. But they still appeared to have more players in central areas despite swift vacating. 
 

Bannan is a fading star that wasn’t that bright to begin with. If it’s just his assists he brings then it’s time to go, Reach has same/more If you go by minutes played, despite him not taking free kicks/corners  and he gets pelters on here.