Bannan

[Philb125]

Just now, brando said:

apart from the shooting youv'e just described Beckham..

sure, Bannans like Beckham that can’t shoot. Let’s hope Dave sees the resemblance and poached him to go play at Inter Miami.

[RUMBELOWS91]

1 hour ago, Bleeder said:

 

Agree with most of this but not sure about the captain bit, (all he seems to be able to do to 'motivate' others is rant and wave his arms about.)

 

I do think Monk should tell Borner and Iorfa to tell him to phook off up the pitch every time he drops to take the ball - when he does this, the only option is a sideways pass or a long ball... especially with 'Joey' in there with him, (usually stood next to him actually.)

Said this before but I don't have a problem with him dropping deep. It's perfectly possible to take the ball off the keeper or centre halves and be involved in the same.move again further up the pitch- unless of course you decide to go long, in which case he's the best man to play the long ball anyway 

 

Swift was doing the same.job for Teading yesterday and he is probably their key/most creative player.

 

Re the captaincy,  I agree he has a habit of ranting, but I've also seen him trying to get others going- he was even trying it with a few minutes to go yesterday when the game (and season) was done and dusted.

 

[markowl]

5 hours ago, Kraschenbern said:

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  

 

 

 

Stopped reading here.

[Holmowl]

1 minute ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

Said this before but I don't have a problem with him dropping deep. It's perfectly possible to take the ball off the keeper or centre halves and be involved in the same.move again further up the pitch- unless of course you decide to go long, in which case he's the best man to play the long ball anyway 

 

Swift was doing the same.job for Teading yesterday and he is probably their key/most creative player.

 

Re the captaincy,  I agree he has a habit of ranting, but I've also seen him trying to get others going- he was even trying it with a few minutes to go yesterday when the game (and season) was done and dusted.

 

Grealish was picking the ball up from his keeper in their 2-1 win at Hillsborough late last season. I couldn’t believe how deep he played.

[scilly owl]

4 hours ago, Kraschenbern said:

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  First thing people will say is that he is our best player for assists and is top ten for that stat in this league.  However, as anyone who's studied mathematics will tell you, stats are easily manipulated.  How good would those stats be if we took set pieces out of the equation, or compared assists to say, minutes on the pitch, or touches of the ball.  Probably wouldn't be so impressive.

 

I'm saying this because, people around me got very excited when he came on today.  But the reality is, in my opinion, he's our biggest problem from a tactical point of view.

 

The Bannan people remember, and rightly so, as one of our best players, was not playing central midfield.  He was on the left, tucking in.  Our central pairing, when Bannan was at his best, was Lee and Hutch. Lee provided movement, forward passing, short passing, triangles, goals, and some defensive qualities.  Hutch provided steel.  And is decent enough in possession.  Bannan offers very few of these qualities.  People say play him next to a beast, it wouldn't make a difference.  He is not a central midfielder.  If anything he should play in the hole behind a lone striker.

 

Pellepussy for all his limitations was no less effective than Bannan today, in fact he's probably more effective cos at least he offers something when we're not in possession.  Bannan does not.

 

If Bannan plays, for me he has to be in a three, and he needs to be the most advanced of the three.  One thing we've not seen in a while IIRC is Lee and Hutch together.  I know Hutch is probably not gonna get picked anytime soon and Lee is no where near his best, but surely those two as a central pairing on paper, would scare the opposition more than Bannan and anyone else.

 

For me Bannan has never been a central midfielder.  I would love to see him on the left, and Hutch and Lee in the middle again, and probably Murphy/Reach on the right.  That is a good midfield with balance.  While ever Bannan is in central midfield we will lack balance.

 

Not saying he's terrible.  But for three seasons I've been saying this and honestly it's driving me a bit nuts.  I used to play anchor in my youth in midfield, at what would now be called an academy, I had three qualities, I could pass, I could shoot from distance, and I could tackle.  Bannan has one of those qualities.  (I'm not saying I was a better footballer than Barry, my mum might argue I was tho ;) )

 

The best thing Monk did today was not start Bannan.  As soon as  he came on, we were immediately 20 yards deeper, his first touch of the game was about level with our Iorfa and Borner.  

 

Again I'm not saying he's a bad footballer.  He is overrated tho, and has never been a starting CM in a two, he just doesn't have the range of abilities required.  

 

What I'd give right now for a K. Lee from 3 years ago.

 

Games are won and lost in central midfield, Bannan would not get in 75% of this divisions central midfield pairings.  

 

Obviously there is a lot more wrong than just this issue.  But I really do believe while ever we continue with him in central midfield we won't progress.  I'd sell him tomorrow.  

 

 

 

At 39 you might have just missed out on seeing Sheridan and Palmer ruling the middle of stadiums up and down the country, hopefully your Dad might have taken you along, but there is a lot of sense in what you say.

I would point out that it’s not just Wednesday fans who have a slightly inflated view of Bannan’s ability, when Wednesday are playing well every manager and pundit is singling him out for lavish praise.... premier league quality some of them say.

I can tell you he’s no John Sheridan... 

[Kraschenbern]

2 hours ago, scilly owl said:

At 39 you might have just missed out on seeing Sheridan and Palmer ruling the middle of stadiums up and down the country, hopefully your Dad might have taken you along, but there is a lot of sense in what you say.

I would point out that it’s not just Wednesday fans who have a slightly inflated view of Bannan’s ability, when Wednesday are playing well every manager and pundit is singling him out for lavish praise.... premier league quality some of them say.

I can tell you he’s no John Sheridan... 

I was lucky enough to go in that era.  Probably why I'm so frustrated now.

[Kraschenbern]

For the record I am not saying Joey is the better player.  But I think he shields the defence better than Bannan.  Also I've not just not renewed cos of Bannan, there are other issues, but I'm sick of watching the football we're playing at the mo.  And I do think him playing in central midfield will always result in us playing deeper, and inviting pressure on to ourselves.  All opponents are doing now is just getting the midfield to press him.  Maybe it's not his fault and I've been a tad harsh in hindsight.  

 

If I was Monk, I'd play him at the top of a three.  He can compete with Windass for the position, or Reach.  Ideally I'd have Luongo and Lee in there with him.  

[Millhouses]

6 hours ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

Ask any other club in the division. They'd love him.

 

We are just incompetent in how we use him. He's a ball playing link up midfielder that keeps it ticking. He's never been a deep holding or tackling midfielder, and is totally unsuited to a flat 4.

 

Joey on the other hand can't tackle, can't take corners, and can't read the game. It passes by him, as his speed of thought and anticipation isn't up to this level.

Pelupessy is National League level at best, you are spot on, he looks completely lost on the football field

[Millhouses]

1 minute ago, Kraschenbern said:

For the record I am not saying Joey is the better player.  But I think he shields the defence better than Bannan.  Also I've not just not renewed cos of Bannan, there are other issues, but I'm sick of watching the football we're playing at the mo.  And I do think him playing in central midfield will always result in us playing deeper, and inviting pressure on to ourselves.  All opponents are doing now is just getting the midfield to press him.  Maybe it's not his fault and I've been a tad harsh in hindsight.  

 

If I was Monk, I'd play him at the top of a three.  He can compete with Windass for the position, or Reach.  Ideally I'd have Luongo and Lee in there with him.  

Pelupessy should be nowhere near a Championship club, non-league at best

[Groundhopping Owl]

We’re certainly using him wrongly, I agree there’s no way he can be used in a 4-4-2 other than on the left.

Him and Hutch have the same problem, they have next to no tactical discipline. Shape is vital in 4-4-2, but it goes out of the window with those two in the middle because they’re liable to go off chasing lost causes every two minutes. The passion’s great but it’s not very helpful in getting results.

 

Bannan probably does need using as a no.10, it’s the only position where you’ve got licence to go walkabout.

[FreshOwl]

Said it weeks ago and got called out. He’s part of the problem, not the solution. His stats for a midfielder of his alleged potential are shocking, 1 assist every 4 games since 2015, a couple goals a season 

 

The comparisons to Sheridan tipped me over the edge 

[Stoop]

Yep

 

Good footballer but where do you play him?

 

Like the OP said in Carlos’s first season it worked great. Bannan tucked in and Pudil provided the width. Same with Hunt and Wallace on the other side. This also allowed Hutchinson to drop in between Loovens and Lees as we had movement and numbers in midfield to cause teams problems. It was a joy to watch 

 

What we’ve seen since then is a more static rigid midfield, and Bannan often gets squeezed out so he’s often coming deep to get on the ball. It’s sh*te and imo is the main problem with our team 

[Hitcat]

Bannan is by far our best player, but he consistently wanders from his position and totally destroys the shape of the team. How can any manager work around that? 

[FreshOwl]

3 minutes ago, Stoop said:

Yep

 

Good footballer but where do you play him?

 

Like the OP said in Carlos’s first season it worked great. Bannan tucked in and Pudil provided the width. Same with Hunt and Wallace on the other side. This also allowed Hutchinson to drop in between Loovens and Lees as we had movement and numbers in midfield to cause teams problems. It was a joy to watch 

 

What we’ve seen since then is a more static rigid midfield, and Bannan often gets squeezed out so he’s often coming deep to get on the ball. It’s sh*te and imo is the main problem with our team 

He plays on the wing or nowhere 

[Stoop]

1 minute ago, FreshOwl said:

He plays on the wing or nowhere 

In Carlos’ system yes, but he’ll just start roaming infield to get the ball, leaving a massive hole out wide

 

We had the perfect system and players to do it back then. Not now

[Holmowl]

10 minutes ago, Hitcat said:

Bannan is by far our best player, but he consistently wanders from his position and totally destroys the shape of the team. How can any manager work around that? 

 

Does he? How?

 

Go and look at his positional play on any stat site and you couldn’t find a player who averages a more central role, both in terms of the length and width of the pitch. 

 

Yes he gets around, but that’s what creative midfielders should do surely? 

[Holmowl]

9 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

He plays on the wing or nowhere 

 

5 minutes ago, Stoop said:

In Carlos’ system yes, but he’ll just start roaming infield to get the ball, leaving a massive hole out wide

 

We had the perfect system and players to do it back then. Not now

 

Time has clouded your memory lads. Go and look at the games he played wide compared to central. Look at the results. Look at how often Carlos was forced to change it at HT or later, and how it worked. Look at our best games. Look where Bannan played.

 

Dont look at one game, or two. Consider all of them. 

 

He’s a CM.

 

Plus, if you get your wish and push Bannan to LW (thereby no Harris and possibly no FF btw) who would you choose as our CMs without Hutch or Luongo or Reach?

[Hitcat]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

Does he? How?

 

Go and look at his positional play on any stat site and you couldn’t find a player who averages a more central role, both in terms of the length and width of the pitch. 

 

Yes he gets around, but that’s what creative midfielders should do surely? 

 

When he comes deep for the ball and assuming he's paired with a defensive midfielder, who's the advanced central midfield outlet? Let's for arguments sake say he'll use the wingers as outlets... But then doesn't that make us predictable and easy to defend against when the opposition know exactly the only place where the ball can go?

[Owl Be Back]

Said it for years that both Bannan and Hutchinson can't play together as central midfielders as both drop into the defensive line. When they play together we end up with no-one in the middle of the park. Much that I like a lot of Bannan's qualities, more so than Hutchinson's, they are both part of the problem in their preferred position.

[doubled123456]

12 hours ago, james o connor said:

Bannan is one of biggest on field problems . Loves sitting back, passing backwards , looks good on you tube reel but is actually not very good 

Well said. He back passes more and more.