Bannan

[Bleeder]

12 minutes ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

We have very little creativity as it is. Dropping Barry Bannan in the current situation is lunacy. Bannan's problem is the lack of quality around him at the moment. Fletcher's injury has had a big impact.

 

He should have played from the start yesterday and he should have been told he's captain until the end of the season.

 

 

Agree with most of this but not sure about the captain bit, (all he seems to be able to do to 'motivate' others is rant and wave his arms about.)

 

I do think Monk should tell Borner and Iorfa to tell him to phook off up the pitch every time he drops to take the ball - when he does this, the only option is a sideways pass or a long ball... especially with 'Joey' in there with him, (usually stood next to him actually.)

[Bleeder]

6 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

im not going to lie, I was quite interested in reading your comments but as soon as I got to the bit about Pellupessy offering more off the ball..... I just stopped as I can’t take anyone serious who thinks pellupessy Offers anything on a football pitch. The rest may be accurate I will never 

 

This

[Wednesday_Jack]

When bannan plays in a much more advanced role he offers quite a bit as his vision and passing is top drawer...however when he plays this deeper role (almost part of the back 4), he is ineffective, slow and boring. 
 

Bannan needs to play much higher up the pitch to get the best out of him!! 

[Dutch McLovin]

3 hours ago, Kraschenbern said:

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  First thing people will say is that he is our best player for assists and is top ten for that stat in this league.  However, as anyone who's studied mathematics will tell you, stats are easily manipulated.  How good would those stats be if we took set pieces out of the equation, or compared assists to say, minutes on the pitch, or touches of the ball.  Probably wouldn't be so impressive.

 

I'm saying this because, people around me got very excited when he came on today.  But the reality is, in my opinion, he's our biggest problem from a tactical point of view.

 

The Bannan people remember, and rightly so, as one of our best players, was not playing central midfield.  He was on the left, tucking in.  Our central pairing, when Bannan was at his best, was Lee and Hutch. Lee provided movement, forward passing, short passing, triangles, goals, and some defensive qualities.  Hutch provided steel.  And is decent enough in possession.  Bannan offers very few of these qualities.  People say play him next to a beast, it wouldn't make a difference.  He is not a central midfielder.  If anything he should play in the hole behind a lone striker.

 

Pellepussy for all his limitations was no less effective than Bannan today, in fact he's probably more effective cos at least he offers something when we're not in possession.  Bannan does not.

 

If Bannan plays, for me he has to be in a three, and he needs to be the most advanced of the three.  One thing we've not seen in a while IIRC is Lee and Hutch together.  I know Hutch is probably not gonna get picked anytime soon and Lee is no where near his best, but surely those two as a central pairing on paper, would scare the opposition more than Bannan and anyone else.

 

For me Bannan has never been a central midfielder.  I would love to see him on the left, and Hutch and Lee in the middle again, and probably Murphy/Reach on the right.  That is a good midfield with balance.  While ever Bannan is in central midfield we will lack balance.

 

Not saying he's terrible.  But for three seasons I've been saying this and honestly it's driving me a bit nuts.  I used to play anchor in my youth in midfield, at what would now be called an academy, I had three qualities, I could pass, I could shoot from distance, and I could tackle.  Bannan has one of those qualities.  (I'm not saying I was a better footballer than Barry, my mum might argue I was tho ;) )

 

The best thing Monk did today was not start Bannan.  As soon as  he came on, we were immediately 20 yards deeper, his first touch of the game was about level with our Iorfa and Borner.  

 

Again I'm not saying he's a bad footballer.  He is overrated tho, and has never been a starting CM in a two, he just doesn't have the range of abilities required.  

 

What I'd give right now for a K. Lee from 3 years ago.

 

Games are won and lost in central midfield, Bannan would not get in 75% of this divisions central midfield pairings.  

 

Obviously there is a lot more wrong than just this issue.  But I really do believe while ever we continue with him in central midfield we won't progress.  I'd sell him tomorrow.  

 

 

 

You are spot on been saying this for years !!

 

There are two issues playing him LM right now tho, firstly we’re not a possession based team and he loves possession so he’d still drop too deep, not like when he played LM a few years ago. 
The other is we don’t have Pudil, in that first year he was a quality full back up and down and did the job of two men. 
 

Still would do it tho 

[Mike Hunt]

We looked better first half did we ?

Strange that init playing with 10 men 

 

but it’s Bannans fault again 

 

you know instead of getting 3 players in on loan that are no better than players already at the club we possibly could have got a couple of midfielders in that are actually on the same level as Bannan ,Jesus 

[SiJ]

He needs to be playing further up the pitch.

 

As it is, he is playing so deep that we dont see the best of him.

 

Complete waste of his talents.

[Holmowl]

32 minutes ago, Bleeder said:

 

Agree with most of this but not sure about the captain bit, (all he seems to be able to do to 'motivate' others is rant and wave his arms about.)

 

I do think Monk should tell Borner and Iorfa to tell him to phook off up the pitch every time he drops to take the ball - when he does this, the only option is a sideways pass or a long ball... especially with 'Joey' in there with him, (usually stood next to him actually.)

But if Bannan doesn’t come short wanting the ball off Borner, Lees or Iorfa they play the floaty long ball up to Wickham or Nuhiu, missing out Bannan & co in midfield.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Holmowl

[Taximark]

@Kraschenbern the reason why Bannan has been poor is all down to tactics, if he plays in his most affective position and is told to be more attacking you will see a whole new player.

If you think Pelupessy is a better player you need help.

[Bleeder]

5 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

But if Bannan doesn’t come short wanting the ball off Borner, Lees or Iorfa they play the floaty long ball up to Wickham or Nuhiu, missing out Bannan & co in midfield.

Then they need to be told to play the 'simple' ball then surely mate. Surely it's Bannan's responsibility to find space in more forward positions to give Iorfa/Borner that option?

 

Last time Hutchinson played he was sometimes between, even behind the back two. Bannan is almost as deep and JP doesn't know where to be. 

 

We all recognise that, sadly, KL is not what he was and with Luongo injured, central midfield, arguably the most important area of the pitch to control, is like a vacuum for us at the moment

 

Really difficult dilemma...

[Holmowl]

10 minutes ago, Bleeder said:

Then they need to be told to play the 'simple' ball then surely mate. Surely it's Bannan's responsibility to find space in more forward positions to give Iorfa/Borner that option?

 

Last time Hutchinson played he was sometimes between, even behind the back two. Bannan is almost as deep and JP doesn't know where to be. 

 

We all recognise that, sadly, KL is not what he was and with Luongo injured, central midfield, arguably the most important area of the pitch to control, is like a vacuum for us at the moment

 

Really difficult dilemma...

I just took a look at the stats of our players yesterday and Luton.

 

Bannan’s average position at Luton was the same as Lee and Joey yesterday. Yet it’s Bannan who gets criticised for being deep.
 

Bannan had almost twice as many touches in 45 minutes as Joey. He also had a similar number of touches as Lee who played 90 minutes.

 

I think if Bannan pushed ten yards higher he would rarely get the ball. We don’t possess a Hector-type who can stroll out and pass with confidence. We would end up with a CB hoofing or turning round for Cam to hoof.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Holmowl

[Philb125]

2 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I just took a look at the stats of our players yesterday and Luton.

 

Bannan’s average position at Luton was the same as Lee and Joey yesterday. Yet it’s Bannan who gets criticised for being deep.
 

Bannan had almost twice as many touches in 45 minutes as Joey. He also had a similar number of touches as Lee who played 90 minutes.

 

I think if Bannan pushed ten yards higher he would rarely get the ball. We don’t possess a Hector-type who can stroll out and pass with confidence. We would end up with a CB hoofing or turning round for Cam to hoof.

If our CB’s are not capable Of picking a pass, why does Bannan keep playing the safe pass to them? How many of his more touches you stated from CB, back to CB? 
 

I said earlier, no problem with creative players dropping deep to dictate play or start off moves, but they have to be brave and play it forward not take the easy way out and play it back to a CB to take responsibility. 

[Bleeder]

Just now, Holmowl said:

I just took a look at the stats of our players yesterday and Luton.

 

Bannan’s average position at Luton was the same as Lee and Joey yesterday. Yet it’s Bannan who gets criticised for being deep.
 

Bannan had almost twice as many touches in 45 minutes as Joey. He also had a similar number of touches as Lee who played 90 minutes.

 

I think if Bannan pushed ten yards higher he would rarely get the ball. We don’t possess a Hector-type who can stroll out and pass with confidence. We would end up with a CB hoofing or turning round for Cam to hoof.

 

Take all your points mate and I'm certainly not one of those who thinks that he shouldn't be playing, (how/why JP got the nod in front of him yesterday I've no idea!)  I know BB sees alot of the ball, maybe the transition's just too slow, maybe none of the midfield are playing with any attacking intent, I don't know. All I know is that it's not working. And that if he repeatedly drops into that position when we already have the ball, it leaves us with one less forward option.

[handworth52]

Totally agree and ive not just said this recently ive been saying it for 3 years. Also what decent team allows a midfielder who aint defensive to only score 1 a season? X10 is whats needed 

[Holmowl]

4 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

If our CB’s are not capable Of picking a pass, why does Bannan keep playing the safe pass to them? How many of his more touches you stated from CB, back to CB? 
 

I said earlier, no problem with creative players dropping deep to dictate play or start off moves, but they have to be brave and play it forward not take the easy way out and play it back to a CB to take responsibility. 

Not a clue. I’m not a huge fan of that type of stat. The only starts I really trust are points and goals/goals conceded. I only took a look because of this feeling that Bannan drops too deep, and it appears that actually he plays no deeper than his recent partners and A LOT higher than Hutch when he plays.

 

I think you are being unfair in saying he passes back to our CBs too often. He’s no longer surrounded by the buzzing tireless 2016 FF, Lee and Wallace. He is under-performing and the team is massively under-performing. But Bannan is not even close to being a major part in this.

[Bigblueowl]

4 hours ago, Kraschenbern said:

He's supposed to play twenty yards further up the pitch so if we are whacking it up top he can be involved.  It's his choice to go deep.  No manager is telling the team to go long and simultaneously telling his CM to go looking for the ball deep.  That would be insane.  He just likes to be in possession.   Ineffective possession, so he has good stats for pass completion, backwards, to whoever is closest.  I find it nuts people can't see this.  The odd good ball, the rare good corner or free kick.  I really don't get what some people think they're watching.  He needs to be out wide or at another club.  Anyone who thinks differently either hasn't been watching us for the last three years or literally should start following another sport.

Going back to stats your bang on. Jacob Butterfield had an 86% pass success rate when he played for us. He was third in the league! We all know he was dog poo and that his passes were 5 yards max and generally backwards. 

 

[Holmowl]

4 minutes ago, handworth52 said:

Totally agree and ive not just said this recently ive been saying it for 3 years. Also what decent team allows a midfielder who aint defensive to only score 1 a season? X10 is whats needed 

OK, so who do you pick in his place next week, assuming Luongo, Reach and Hutch can’t be picked for various reasons?

 

Which two do we play from Lee, Joey and Windass?

[dorian gray]

4 hours ago, Kraschenbern said:

Here goes.... this probably ain't gonna be very popular.

 

I have no doubt that Bannan has his qualities.  He's a "tidy" footballer.  But he is the most overrated Wednesday player in my lifetime (I'm 39).  First thing people will say is that he is our best player for assists and is top ten for that stat in this league.  However, as anyone who's studied mathematics will tell you, stats are easily manipulated.  How good would those stats be if we took set pieces out of the equation, or compared assists to say, minutes on the pitch, or touches of the ball.  Probably wouldn't be so impressive.

 

I'm saying this because, people around me got very excited when he came on today.  But the reality is, in my opinion, he's our biggest problem from a tactical point of view.

 

The Bannan people remember, and rightly so, as one of our best players, was not playing central midfield.  He was on the left, tucking in.  Our central pairing, when Bannan was at his best, was Lee and Hutch. Lee provided movement, forward passing, short passing, triangles, goals, and some defensive qualities.  Hutch provided steel.  And is decent enough in possession.  Bannan offers very few of these qualities.  People say play him next to a beast, it wouldn't make a difference.  He is not a central midfielder.  If anything he should play in the hole behind a lone striker.

 

Pellepussy for all his limitations was no less effective than Bannan today, in fact he's probably more effective cos at least he offers something when we're not in possession.  Bannan does not.

 

If Bannan plays, for me he has to be in a three, and he needs to be the most advanced of the three.  One thing we've not seen in a while IIRC is Lee and Hutch together.  I know Hutch is probably not gonna get picked anytime soon and Lee is no where near his best, but surely those two as a central pairing on paper, would scare the opposition more than Bannan and anyone else.

 

For me Bannan has never been a central midfielder.  I would love to see him on the left, and Hutch and Lee in the middle again, and probably Murphy/Reach on the right.  That is a good midfield with balance.  While ever Bannan is in central midfield we will lack balance.

 

Not saying he's terrible.  But for three seasons I've been saying this and honestly it's driving me a bit nuts.  I used to play anchor in my youth in midfield, at what would now be called an academy, I had three qualities, I could pass, I could shoot from distance, and I could tackle.  Bannan has one of those qualities.  (I'm not saying I was a better footballer than Barry, my mum might argue I was tho ;) )

 

The best thing Monk did today was not start Bannan.  As soon as  he came on, we were immediately 20 yards deeper, his first touch of the game was about level with our Iorfa and Borner.  

 

Again I'm not saying he's a bad footballer.  He is overrated tho, and has never been a starting CM in a two, he just doesn't have the range of abilities required.  

 

What I'd give right now for a K. Lee from 3 years ago.

 

Games are won and lost in central midfield, Bannan would not get in 75% of this divisions central midfield pairings.  

 

Obviously there is a lot more wrong than just this issue.  But I really do believe while ever we continue with him in central midfield we won't progress.  I'd sell him tomorrow.  

 

 

 

the two you mention as central m/f are way past their best, and i'm far from sure we have adequate cover for either. as for 'triangles' you'll not hurt anyone with them unless you hit them with one of those big toblerones you get at the airport.

I agree, and have said for a long time now that bannan should be used as a forward link 'tween m/f and attack, he should not be within 15 yards of our penalty area, and never allowed to come back deep to pick the ball up.

the k.lee of 3 years ago doesn't exist anymore.

[davey_wells]

Here we go

 

Bannan has the occasional poor game.

 

But to label him as one of our biggest problems at a time we're witnessing a world of mess around him is pretty staggering.

[unkastav]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

Swift was MOTM yesterday, and you can see why Wilder wanted to sign him in the summer. 

I posted on here too we should go for him. Actually couldve  swapped with Joao who knows

[brando]

4 hours ago, Philb125 said:

 

I don’t mind a creative player dropping back to get the ball and start things off, as long as they pass it forward though. Look at Swift for them today, came back to his CB’s fairly often, brought the ball out, picked a pass to one of the forward players. 
 

Bannan in the other hand, comes back, takes it from Borner or Iorfa, gives it back to Borner who now has less time after a meaningless one-two, also has one less midfielders to pass to and has to hoof it. 
 

Bannan can’t tackle, track back, mark, head, shoot.... these are not the attributes of one of the best midfielders in the division. Almost every game I think to myself I’d have their CM’s over ours. 

apart from the shooting youv'e just described Beckham..