Selling players

[TINGLE75]

This is the only way through this mess as far as I can tell. Most other clubs sell their assets when at their peak or when good offers come in for players, Brentford, Leeds and United. As far as I can remember we have only sold Jack Hunt for money in years. We need to change as a club and look as reliable assets to survive.

[striker]

Its the norm in this league, better players get sold and the funds reinvested to evolve the squad. 

 

Taking Norwich as an example, sold Maddison for good money, brought in 3 or 4 with that money. Result, a much stronger squad and now challenging for promotion.

 

Trouble is, we have very few saleable assets as a result of signing the wrong type of players to fit that business model. I understand why we bought some of those types of experienced players, some were a mistake and recently have invested in younger players with potential.

 

Have no problem selling any of the squad for the right money, whilever we are in this league is a fact of life.

 

That's why I think Bruce is such a good appointment, knows the transfer market inside out and usually decent with recruitment. I do genuinely believe he will have full control, which is what is needed to minimise the damage from hangers on and leeches around the club with regard to recruitment (I'm not naive enough to think they will be gone completely, but their involvement reduced)

 

Don't think DC should be scared of selling players, the fans understand.

 

 

[Neon Nick]

Sadly, Football has become a money-game, even if an Owner doesn't care about money.  As in any business, one sells the "store" when it's at its' peak, or better yet, just before the peak on a Gaussian curve, in this way the seller will make the most money.  My question is, what could we get from our best Players?  No single Player is going to bail us out of FFP.  How many Players, and which ones, would it take?  Has anybody come calling about any of our Players?  

 

To my mind, the proceeds from the sales would go more towards buying suitable replacements, than FFP.  Do we have one Player worth 15 million?  Two worth 7 or 8 million?  3 worth 5 million, 4 worth 3 or 4 million, 5 worth 3 million....or any combination of thereof?  I don't know.

[striker]

2 minutes ago, Neon Nick said:

Sadly, Football has become a money-game, even if an Owner doesn't care about money.  As in any business, one sells the "store" when it's at its' peak, or better yet, just before the peak on a Gaussian curve, in this way the seller will make the most money.  My question is, what could we get from our best Players?  No single Player is going to bail us out of FFP.  How many Players, and which ones, would it take?  Has anybody come calling about any of our Players?  

 

To my mind, the proceeds from the sales would go more towards buying suitable replacements, than FFP.  Do we have one Player worth 15 million?  Two worth 7 or 8 million?  3 worth 5 million, 4 worth 3 or 4 million, 5 worth 3 million....or any combination of thereof?  I don't know.

I think releasing all players out of contract in the summer will relieve a lot of FFP pressure. Outside of that the sale of one of Bannan or more likely Reach will give Bruce necessary leeway to rebalance the squad. 

 

Expect us to use loans to the max next season, i.e. 5, therefore purchases will be prudent and come 2020/21 in the FFP cycle, can go again and invest.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the meantime, if given games the likes of Joao, Thornily, Penney or Dawson aren't subject to decent offers. All at a good age and have attributes and potential PL clubs may be interested in....the key is to sell high while that potential is still at its peak.

[billyblack]

6 minutes ago, striker said:

I think releasing all players out of contract in the summer will relieve a lot of FFP pressure. Outside of that the sale of one of Bannan or more likely Reach will give Bruce necessary leeway to rebalance the squad. 

 

Expect us to use loans to the max next season, i.e. 5, therefore purchases will be prudent and come 2020/21 in the FFP cycle, can go again and invest.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the meantime, if given games the likes of Joao, Thornily, Penney or Dawson aren't subject to decent offers. All at a good age and have attributes and potential PL clubs may be interested in....the key is to sell high while that potential is still at its peak.

It doesnt fix the gap we have now. Merely takes then off the wage bill. We have to sell or have sanctions, its that simple

[Neon Nick]

4 minutes ago, striker said:

I think releasing all players out of contract in the summer will relieve a lot of FFP pressure. Outside of that the sale of one of Bannan or more likely Reach will give Bruce necessary leeway to rebalance the squad. 

 

Expect us to use loans to the max next season, i.e. 5, therefore purchases will be prudent and come 2020/21 in the FFP cycle, can go again and invest.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the meantime, if given games the likes of Joao, Thornily, Penney or Dawson aren't subject to decent offers. All at a good age and have attributes and potential PL clubs may be interested in....the key is to sell high while that potential is still at its peak.

Very true...are out-of-contract Players that significant in value?  Would their release make a substantial dent in the FFP bill?  I don't know, but am damned sure hoping that it would.  Joao, Thorniley, Penney, and Dawson are definitely saleable, but to whom, at what price, and would the proceeds go towards the FFP bill, or replacements?

[striker]

4 minutes ago, Neon Nick said:

Very true...are out-of-contract Players that significant in value?  Would their release make a substantial dent in the FFP bill?  I don't know, but am damned sure hoping that it would.  Joao, Thorniley, Penney, and Dawson are definitely saleable, but to whom, at what price, and would the proceeds go towards the FFP bill, or replacements?

Considering the volume and type of players out of contract, surely £10-12m off the wage bill. So while it doesn't solve FFP, along with a sale offers light at the end of the tunnel. 

[Mister Soul]

Contrary to what some people think, I believe we have a very good squad.

However (for a variety of reasons.. maybe going back to CC) they are a squad of under performing demotivated or injured players. 

As soon as any kind of normality appears (Feb 1st?)  at our club, the majority of players will begin to thrive ... (players, generally welcome discipline And continuity) .. and their market value will soar! 

...and that’s the reality of the situation!

 

[SiJ]

It's how you survive. 

 

Whether we like it or not, there's a pecking order in football. If a bigger club or a team higher up the totem pole offers you good money for a player then you sell, reinvest and get better.

 

Further, teams operate in cycles. You can have the best group of players in the world, but eventually things will go stale; either due to age, loss of form and so on.

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, TINGLE75 said:

This is the only way through this mess as far as I can tell. Most other clubs sell their assets when at their peak or when good offers come in for players, Brentford, Leeds and United. As far as I can remember we have only sold Jack Hunt for money in years. We need to change as a club and look as reliable assets to survive.

 

The problem we have is every other club knows we are in the brown stuff , so we will struggle to get the market value for our saleable assets . 

[striker]

14 minutes ago, billyblack said:

It doesnt fix the gap we have now. Merely takes then off the wage bill. We have to sell or have sanctions, its that simple

Agree, think a big sale of a prized asset is necessary to balance the books. 

[Neon Nick]

3 minutes ago, striker said:

Considering the volume and type of players out of contract, surely £10-12m off the wage bill. So while it doesn't solve FFP, along with a sale offers light at the end of the tunnel. 

Really?  Wow, 10-12 million off the wage bill.  Does that mean Bruce can spend it on the Players of his choice?  That would, to my mind, be light at the end of the tunnel.

[dowls]

7 minutes ago, striker said:

Considering the volume and type of players out of contract, surely £10-12m off the wage bill. So while it doesn't solve FFP, along with a sale offers light at the end of the tunnel. 

 Agree conservative estimate would put those at the end of their contract to come to a combined 8 million excluding other factors such as rights, bonuses and NI probably comes up to 12 plus million .. it just won’t show in the March accounts.

 

Likewise player sales all depends how payments are spread .. will January sales hit this years accounts?? Again probably not but it would aid a submission to the EFL over the health of the accounts in subsequent years.

 

Trouble is they all have to be replaced - loans being the most obvious solution.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by dowls

[dowls]

1 minute ago, Neon Nick said:

Really?  Wow, 10-12 million off the wage bill.  Does that mean Bruce can spend it on the Players of his choice?  That would, to my mind, be light at the end of the tunnel.

Yep probably ... no not really as that just puts us back at square one.

 

Only way Bruce gets to spend is some form of extra revenue.

[Neon Nick]

4 minutes ago, dowls said:

Yep probably ... no not really as that just puts us back at square one.

 

Only way Bruce gets to spend is some form of extra revenue.

So where does the money from the Player sales go?  Towards the FFP bill?  I'd love to see the results of a Bruce shopping-spree.

[dowls]

Just now, Neon Nick said:

So where does the money from the Player sales go?  Towards the FFP bill?  I'd love to see the results of a Bruce shopping-spree.

 

Next year accounts .. accounts are usually a year out.  Also selling reach for 15 million probably only sees us get 4 million on the following year accounts - unless you get get a deal where you get more upfront - which probably lowers the selling price! 

 

Only way it helps is a submission to EFL to say don’t embargo us .. I.e. a soft embrago at best... because the health of the accounts is going to be far better due to these factors I.e. smaller wage bill and xx million from player sales for x number of years.

[billyblack]

21 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

The problem we have is every other club knows we are in the brown stuff , so we will struggle to get the market value for our saleable assets . 

Yes, thats what happens when you get desperate.

[pazowl55]

3 minutes ago, dowls said:

 

Next year accounts .. accounts are usually a year out.  Also selling reach for 15 million probably only sees us get 4 million on the following year accounts - unless you get get a deal where you get more upfront - which probably lowers the selling price! 

 

Only way it helps is a submission to EFL to say don’t embargo us .. I.e. a soft embrago at best... because the health of the accounts is going to be far better due to these factors I.e. smaller wage bill and xx million from player sales for x number of years.

I thought it was different for player sales. So if we sold Reach for 15m then thats the 15m FFP deficit payed off.

[pgmetcalf]

1 hour ago, TINGLE75 said:

This is the only way through this mess as far as I can tell. Most other clubs sell their assets when at their peak or when good offers come in for players, Brentford, Leeds and United. As far as I can remember we have only sold Jack Hunt for money in years. We need to change as a club and look as reliable assets to survive.

 

What's a good offer?  £500K for Reach? This is the thing, if clubs know you have to sell they're going to offer bugger all. If Brooks is worth £15, then Reach is worth £40m. That is a cert

Edited January 19, 2019 by pgmetcalf

[SiJ]

5 minutes ago, pgmetcalf said:

 

What's a good offer?  £500K for Reach? This is the thing, if clubs know you have to sell they're going to offer bugger all. If Brooks is worth £15, then Reach is worth £40m. That is a cert

Well, that's not right. 

 

You could probably get about 10 million for Reach. 

 

I do agree that our negotiating position is seriously undermined with the current situation we find ourselves in. One upside is most of our coveted players are not in the last year of their contract, so we can command better fees. 

 

Needless to say, the whole situation is a mess. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by SiJ