Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It doesn't matter whether you have safe seating, or safe standing, until the attitude of fans alters, both are dangerous. If people will crowd together and behave like drunken yobs, neither system will be safe. Unfortunately, it is not the safe seating/standing that is the problem, but the inherent drunken, idiotic behaviour that is the problem. Until our attitudes change, the problem will remain. I agree with an aspect of what you are saying, other nations don't have the away following tradition of single blokes getting wombled for a start, in Spain it's pretty I heard of for away fans to attend a game. For example I went to a game a few years ago at Old Trafford (Olympic football I think) and I took my two young nephews to get a pie and a Coke at half time and when we got back to our seats a group of completely hammered blokes were stood in our place and set about throwing stuff at us when we tried to reason with them. My nephews were terrified, especially when one of the blokes started fighting the stewards who were trying to eject him. So even the biggest and most modern grounds have issues. But on the whole English fans are mostly ok, I don't see that there would be worse behaviour if rail seating is introduced as a whole but there is a POTENTIAL danger of something happening. But then again the home ULTRA fans in Germany seem to cope ok with rail seating. It needs trial and education in England on a small scale for a decade rather than wholesale change I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickledegghiderman Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) I for one would love to see safe standing at football grounds and it seems the vast majority of fans would too according to surveys put out. One of the problems with this idea would be the F.A. And its one of the reasons as to why england as a footballing nation will always be playing catch up to the rest of europe, alwys trying to emulate what other countries do instead of being forward thinking. I seem to think that if a petition was signed by i think 500k people then the matter must be dealt with in parliament and if such a petition was there then i dont think there would be any trouble hitting that figure. It could even go as high as the european parliament and force the f.a and uefa into allowing safe standing at football matches. Of course the terrible tradegy of the hillsborough disaster should never be forgotten but football matches are totally different now to how they were 20 years ago with each seat and ticket being allocated. I can remember when my dad used to lift me over the turnstile, something that probably very rarely happens nowadays, can anyone else remember this? We have to accept that football and society have moved on from the dark days of the 80's and that the germans have proved that safe standing environments can be implemented at sporting arenas. Come on the F.A. Come on the football league. Its time to start giving the people who make this game great what we want it to be instead of bowing down to sponsors and bureaucrats telling you what they want us to have Edited February 12, 2016 by pickledegghiderman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) TLDR. Punctuation? Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm really pleased with the way this thread has turned out, there obviously is a great feeling still in football for standing in grounds and the atmosphere created by it. There is nothing quite like it and is sorely missed in stadiums throughout the country! Maybe we could petition Wednesday into considering it!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm really pleased with the way this thread has turned out, there obviously is a great feeling still in football for standing in grounds and the atmosphere created by it. There is nothing quite like it and is sorely missed in stadiums throughout the country! Maybe we could petition Wednesday into considering it!? Wednesday can't consider it until the FA gives the green light to trial it, I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Hatstand Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Fans wouldnt be "denser" at all. They would, when it's safe standing the capacity is doubled compared to when the seats are folded down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 They would, when it's safe standing the capacity is doubled compared to when the seats are folded down On each other's shoulders innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Hatstand Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 or standing takes less room than sitting down?either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 or standing takes less room than sitting down? either Not in Glasgow. Fatties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickledegghiderman Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm really pleased with the way this thread has turned out, there obviously is a great feeling still in football for standing in grounds and the atmosphere created by it. There is nothing quite like it and is sorely missed in stadiums throughout the country! Maybe we could petition Wednesday into considering it!?I think the petition needs to be put nationwide, and sure as i am, i believe that if a petition gets over 500k signatures then the subsequent hearing needs to be debated in parliament. To me this is the only way we will get standing back at football matches in england Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It depends on the type of conversion to rail seats as to if capacity goes up. Not all use the 'double step' method but it is common to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ameylamps Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 This will never ever ever happen at Hillsborough. Liverpool would kick up a stink!^^^ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Anyone not convinced, please take a minute to read this: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/safe-standing-facts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It doesn't matter whether you have safe seating, or safe standing, until the attitude of fans alters, both are dangerous. If people will crowd together and behave like drunken yobs, neither system will be safe. Unfortunately, it is not the safe seating/standing that is the problem, but the inherent drunken, idiotic behaviour that is the problem. Until our attitudes change, the problem will remain. On the flipside, if people are going to crowd together now anyway when there is just a seat, and still stand throughout the game then the rail seats will be safer than the current set up, even if nothing changes for the positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I agree with an aspect of what you are saying, other nations don't have the away following tradition of single blokes getting wombled for a start, in Spain it's pretty I heard of for away fans to attend a game. For example I went to a game a few years ago at Old Trafford (Olympic football I think) and I took my two young nephews to get a pie and a Coke at half time and when we got back to our seats a group of completely hammered blokes were stood in our place and set about throwing stuff at us when we tried to reason with them. My nephews were terrified, especially when one of the blokes started fighting the stewards who were trying to eject him. So even the biggest and most modern grounds have issues. But on the whole English fans are mostly ok, I don't see that there would be worse behaviour if rail seating is introduced as a whole but there is a POTENTIAL danger of something happening. But then again the home ULTRA fans in Germany seem to cope ok with rail seating. It needs trial and education in England on a small scale for a decade rather than wholesale change I think. You have to be kidding with that last statement!!! A ten year trial!!! All the relevant information is available from the countries that have been using these systems for years now!! Our fans are no different from those in Germany, a country who have a bigger hooligan problem than England does now, and these areas work fine. There is no reason why football in England should not be looking at this and allow the clubs who wish to do it to be able to get on and do it. Liverpool are spending 100m on expanding their capacity to tryo to compete with MU and Arsenal, yet safe standing on their famed Kop would achieve the same increase for a fraction of the cost, and would be welcomed by most football fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellybean Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Not sure there's any evidence to back up what wild thing is saying. Just lots of theory. Plenty of writing and no substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 What a very flippant comment mate move forward and stop reflecting on the past. There are at least 96 peoples friends and family that might not agree with that. Add to that the fans who died in various grounds throughout history in crushes through surging. I know the world has gone mad with health and safety but this was stopped for a reason. Hillsborough was a accident waiting to happen. Barriers or fencing or not your still going to get a few hundred no heads pushing up and down that area and side to side. It's not the most sensible thing to do really is it Are you telling me that Adults cannot stand to watch football but can for any other activity on the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Being stood up didn't cause the Hillsborough disaster. Being fenced in did. Exactly, how anyone can't see that is beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidc77 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Are you telling me that Adults cannot stand to watch football but can for any other activity on the world? Look at the picture on the last page of our fans at Birmingham and ask that again I have followed football up and down the country and football fans are a absolute nightmare and so was I when I was younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Not sure there's any evidence to back up what wild thing is saying. Just lots of theory. Plenty of writing and no substance. What evidence do you have to the contrary? 1) Safe standing is a name given to "rail seating" the most popular choice for allowing standing at stadiums in Europe. There is no terracing in the traditional sense and there won't be. 2) At some fixtures, such as European competitions, grounds tha have rail seating have to lock down the seats and standing is not allowed. 3) Not all areas of safe standing that have been trailed in Europe have been the rail seating method that allows two fans to occupy a step each, there are a number of alternative methods that have been tried. Thus, having safe standing does not necessarily mean a better atmosphere through a denser crowd, or a higher attendance. 4) Safe standing in Europe requires each fan to be allocated a standing point in the seat number associated with the row that they are watching from. This stops fans wandering around the terrace and ensures that numbers are controlled. 5) There is little evidence of how well rail seating crush barriers affect a disaster, because there hasn't been one. Thankfully. 6) Clubs in England would require the FA, UEFA, the Football League, the Premier League and a whole host of other bodies to agree to allow a trial of safe standing in high level football grounds. There is no way clubs will just be allowed to do it, look at the fight that Celtic have had for years to get their tiny trial area put in. 7) Each country in Europe has a totally different football culture and each nation has approached safe standing from their own cultural standpoint, something that England will have to do also. For example in Spain very few clubs have large away followings, in Germany the home fans have very vocal and sometime nawty ultra sections but on the whole they have become very organised in recent decades and so on. To simply believe Emgland does not have complex ongoin lg issues in regards fan behaviour, just like other nations, is a complete fallacy. Of course we have crowd issues, which is why certain games are pushed into early kick off slots and why we have huge police attendances at games. This would all need detailed thought and trial of safe standing is to be introduced. Simply saying its a thing of the past is not going to help get safe standing brought in, actually addressing those complex issues would be a step forward. Anyone who thinks that is all hot air need their head shaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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