Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Look at the picture on the last page of our fans at Birmingham and ask that again I have followed football up and down the country and football fans are a absolute nightmare and so was I when I was younger. Exactly, people are standing in the seated area; if that were safe standing then that couldn't have happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly, people are standing in the seated area; if that were safe standing then that couldn't have happened So what you're saying there is that if rail seats were introduced fans wouldn't be a little bit nawty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidc77 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Exactly, people are standing in the seated area; if that were safe standing then that couldn't have happenedExactly because most are pissed and jumping around like bell cheeses. I know because I used to do the same when I was younger and couldn't handle the beer. It's happening now even more. Watch the videos in the bar/food area people lobbing beer and climbing on shoulders. Get these same people in those areas all together pushing side to side jumping on the rails pissed up. I'm not having a go at them btw they are enjoying a day out like I used to when I had no responsibility but I wouldn't trust these fans (and every club has them) with a standing area no matter how much improved it is Edited February 12, 2016 by kidc77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 So what you're saying there is that if rail seats were introduced fans wouldn't be a little bit nawty? No I'm saying they could be as rowdy as they like but it would be impossible for them to fall over themselves as they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly because most are pissed and jumping around like bell cheeses. I know because I used to do the same when I was younger and couldn't handle the beer. It's happening now even more. Watch the videos in the bar/food area people lobbing beer and climbing on shoulders. Get these same people in those areas all together pushing side to side jumping on the rails pissed up. How is this related to safe standing? Doesn't this happen regardless of whether they stand or sit? Can't see how anyone can justify that safe standing can be more dangerous than standing in a seated area; regardless of how rowdy anybody is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly because most are pissed and jumping around like bell cheeses. I know because I used to do the same when I was younger and couldn't handle the beer. It's happening now even more. Watch the videos in the bar/food area people lobbing beer and climbing on shoulders. Get these same people in those areas all together pushing side to side jumping on the rails pissed up. I'm not having a go at them btw they are enjoying a day out like I used to when I had no responsibility but I wouldn't trust these fans (and every club has them) with a standing area no matter how much improved it is Yes but they are jumping around in an area solely designed for seating, not standing. With these rail sets you wouldn't have everyone together pushing side to side because the rails prevent that, and they definitely prevent what happened at Brum in that photo. Seats or standing doesn't stop idiots being idiots!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) How is this related to safe standing? Doesn't this happen regardless of whether they stand or sit? Can't see how anyone can justify that safe standing can be more dangerous than standing in a seated area; regardless of how rowdy anybody is Exactly. So your argument works the other way, there is no evidence that justifies that safe standing will be safer than seating. Can't have it all ways. Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidc77 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Yes but they are jumping around in an area solely designed for seating, not standing. With these rail sets you wouldn't have everyone together pushing side to side because the rails prevent that, and they definitely prevent what happened at Brum in that photo. Seats or standing doesn't stop idiots being idiots!!! I believe letting them bunch together in that row is giving them exactly that licence to do what happened I t he bar area. Act like no heads it's harder to do that in the seated areas and if they are it's easy to eject them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Number of banning orders in English competitions per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Number of NEW banning orders per season in English competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I believe letting them bunch together in that row is giving them exactly that licence to do what happened I t he bar area. Act like no heads it's harder to do that in the seated areas and if they are it's easy to eject them. Please stop it, they are bunched together now, just in rows of seats with no safety rails or anything to stop them spilling forward. Please look at the photos of these type of seats and show me how that is any harder to spot someone being a wee pipe in a currently seated stand now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Just to show that, yes, we still do have a problem in English football. Just like the rest of Europe. That problem will have a myriad of complex issues that differs from those in Europe, all of this would need to be taken into account as part of the introduction of safe standing. I'm not saying it's impossible to introduce it, what I'm saying is that simply keeping up this absurd fallacy that English football is well behaved won't help anyone in the quest to introduce it. Finding a good argument and rail seating keeps fans well behaved is a much better approach than shouting down anyone (like me) who is honest enough to admit that we still have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly. So your argument works the other way, there is no evidence that justifies that safe standing will be safer than seating. Can't have it all ways. Safe standing is far safer than standing in a seated only area!! Away fans and some home fans stand all game, thats what they want to do, lets give them a safe place to do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Safe standing is far safer than standing in a seated only area!! Away fans and some home fans stand all game, thats what they want to do, lets give them a safe place to do that! Based on? What evidence? That's exactly what the FA and Football League will ask, so why not tell us what you base this on? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you need proof. Just like you all keep telling me I need proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Just to show that, yes, we still do have a problem in English football. Just like the rest of Europe. That problem will have a myriad of complex issues that differs from those in Europe, all of this would need to be taken into account as part of the introduction of safe standing. I'm not saying it's impossible to introduce it, what I'm saying is that simply keeping up this absurd fallacy that English football is well behaved won't help anyone in the quest to introduce it. Finding a good argument and rail seating keeps fans well behaved is a much better approach than shouting down anyone (like me) who is honest enough to admit that we still have a problem. Its got nothing to do with the hooligan problem though!!! Our keeper got slapped by a moron who was sat in a seat until he decided to run onto the pitch!! There is nothing to suggest that these standing areas will increase any hooligan problem and where has anyone said that it has disappeared anyway. You rarely see any trouble in the grounds these days though, it takes place before and after games away from the stadiums. But I stress again, no one is suggesting that this would improve the hooligan problem or make it more prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Based on? What evidence? That's exactly what the FA and Football League will ask, so why not tell us what you base this on? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you need proof. Just like you all keep telling me I need proof. Not sure if you are playing devils advocate, have not seen the images of safe standing or simply have a complete lack of physics knowledge. It's plain to see, standing in an area designed to do this is far safer than an area that is designed to sit. Its common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Not sure if you are playing devils advocate, have not seen the images of safe standing or simply have a complete lack of physics knowledge. It's plain to see, standing in an area designed to do this is far safer than an area that is designed to sit. Its common sense There are pros and cons of seating and of safe standing. Like I keep saying, it needs proper trials, long trials. There are some people who seem to think it is ok to start banging it in now. That simply won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I believe letting them bunch together in that row is giving them exactly that licence to do what happened I t he bar area. Act like no heads it's harder to do that in the seated areas and if they are it's easy to eject them. Why? It's not... Safe standing is just the same as seating is now but with a higher bar that you can lean on to stop you falling over the seat in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Clemente Owl Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Based on? What evidence? That's exactly what the FA and Football League will ask, so why not tell us what you base this on? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you need proof. Just like you all keep telling me I need proof. Now you as well!!!! Standing on a terrace that has seats on it and no fall barriers is inherently less safe than one where there is a barrier. One our Kop for example, if you stand up the seat in the row in front of you is at shin height, if someone from behind falls forward then they will push you over that seat in front of you, and so on down the stand. This happened to my 75 year old mother on our Kop last season, giving her very bruised ribs and other cuts because as the guy behind her lost his balance, fell over her seat and basically pushed her over the one in front of her!! These rail seats will allow you to stand in an area designed for standing but without the problems associated with fully open terraces of the past. There will be no more than one person behind you or in front of you without a barrier separating you from the next group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 There are pros and cons of seating and of safe standing. Like I keep saying, it needs proper trials, long trials. There are some people who seem to think it is ok to start banging it in now. That simply won't happen. It won't happen and it makes no sense to implement at Hillsborough commercially* but I would like it it * You only pay for this if you are building a new stand or need an increased atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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