Lack of time, trust and respect for our manager

[KivoOwl]

You being a hypocrite = starting two threads; one which bangs on how bad we are and scared of relegation; the second one having a pop other Wednesday fans saying how bad we are and how we will get relegated. That's not the point of this thread at all.

(I used to be sc owl) has pretty much said all that needs to be said about how it is at S6.

We've played 25% of our games no we haven't and are shipping in 2/3 on average per game and there is clear unrest at the club. We have been dire.

It's a result based business and the results have been shocking.

Your new angle which is to have a pop at other fans who are deeply concerned and are expressing their opinions on here a (FOOTBALL FORUM) is quite hilarious and also insulting. I'm not having a pop at fans who are concerned at all - I am having a pop at 'fans' who feel the need to pour abuse at a man who has earned our trust. As for having a go at people who are expressing their opinion - this thread is my opinion, and you've had a go. Doesn't that make YOU a hypocrite?

[cowl]

Aye, be interested to know what is ignorant and/or misplaced?

To be fair, I think in reference to (part of) your point #3, he praised COG plenty for his performance against Burnley. Interview's here: http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19709923

His comments about Llera when asked about his potential to play in midfield were harshly put though.

But we ought to be careful on inferring too much from interviews anyway; I read here about COG's views after the Burnley game: http://www.yorkshire...grady-1-4990032 - his respect for Jones is quite apparent, and worth noting.

*edit - I'd agree with your point #6 too. I really don't know what the hell's going on with the corner's at the moment.

Edited October 7, 2012 by edwardjameswells

[Guest totemowl]

Aye, be interested to know what is ignorant and/or misplaced?

Let's start with point 4. You can pick another if you wish.

5) Allegedly not attending training. So according to some of the coaching staff in a WP interview Jones doesn't regularly attend training. Whether Cloughie, Ferguson, Mourinho or Wenger attend training is irrelevant. They have all won major honours and are/were world class managers. If the coaches are coaching and taking charge of training then what exactly does DJ do

Last week we had someone on saying 'if DJ doesn't do most of the scouting w, vetting of players and negotiations what does he do?' This is very much of the same ilk.

DJ is there to manage, or perhaps more accurately to lead the footballing operations at the club. That means he has to oversee scouting, recruitment, coaching, youth development, club (infrastructure) development, and see that the objectives set by MM are met, to deliver us into the Premiership and keep us there.

Hence your expectation that he should be personally involved in all coaching sessions is imo silly and misplaced. Hopefully you can understand this.

[Guest Old Salt]

When we are a shapeless, unorganised mess who can't take a set piece he should be involved in training. The other duties you mention come after.

[swfc-dan]

Bloody hell what an OP.

[Guest totemowl]

When we are a shapeless, unorganised mess who can't take a set piece he should be involved in training. The other duties you mention come after.

No one has said he's not involved in training. Preparing the first team for upcoming matches must be a top priority and balanced accordingly.

[Guest foreverSWFC]

You being a hypocrite = starting two threads; one which bangs on how bad we are and scared of relegation; the second one having a pop other Wednesday fans saying how bad we are and how we will get relegated.

(I used to be sc owl) has pretty much said all that needs to be said about how it is at S6.

We've played 25% of our games and are shipping in 2/3 on average per game and there is clear unrest at the club. We have been dire.

It's a result based business and the results have been shocking.

Your new angle which is to have a pop at other fans who are deeply concerned and are expressing their opinions on here a (FOOTBALL FORUM) is quite hilarious and also insulting.

Spot on.

[bedfordowl]

Some sense at last nice one kivo top post.

[Manchester_Owl]

22%.

No it doesn't make me hypocrite. You are saying one thing and then the exact opposite a few days later whilst insulting your fellow fans.

You think im clueless for stating that a manager, in a results based business, who has lost 7 games out of 8, should be sacked.

Or was that just an overreaction?

[KivoOwl]

22%.

No it doesn't make me hypocrite. You are saying one thing and then the exact opposite a few days later whilst insulting your fellow fans.

You think im clueless for stating that a manager, in a results based business, who has lost 7 games out of 8, should be sacked.

Or was that just an overreaction?

But I didn't say one thing and then the exact opposite. You made that up, or completely mis-read both posts.

I haven't insulted fellow fans, I have expressed my disgust at fans who have felt the need to call Dave Jones a 'flipping stinky flaps'

And I would agree that 1 point from 24 is normally good enough reason to sack a manager, but my argument is that this manager has earned more time.

Or shouldn't I be expressing my opinion?

[Manchester_Owl]

Fine to express your opinion, just have some consistency so it doesn't come across at attention seeking.

[KivoOwl]

Fine to express your opinion, just have some consistency so it doesn't come across at attention seeking.

What are you talking about? Where have I been inconsistent?

Post 1 - Express disappointment about the way the season is going

Post 2 - Express desire for fans to stay behind the manager

Where is the inconsistency?

And even if it WAS inconsistent - how does that mean i'm attention seeking?

[Manchester_Owl]

Not getting involved in your attention seeking issue.

Seek help.

[KivoOwl]

Not getting involved in your attention seeking issue.

Seek help.

Funny how you're the only one that ever brings my 'issue' up.

[Sonny]

But then people could say your post it totally pointless too.

OK, thanks for your input.

[Guest totemowl]

Not getting involved in your attention seeking issue.

Seek help.

Stop being a pratt. It's bizarre that you see the OP as being attention seeking. It's more realistic that you're jealous...

And the more you dig, the more petty you appear.

If Kivo has changed his opinion, and I'm not sure that there is any inconsistency, what's the big deal. What could be worse than someone sticking to a position regardless of circumstance, regardless of feedback, regardless of thought, just for the sake of that position. Which is exactly the hole that you appear to have dug for yourself.

Edited October 7, 2012 by totemowl

[i used to be sc_owl]

Let's start with point 4. You can pick another if you wish.

Last week we had someone on saying 'if DJ doesn't do most of the scouting w, vetting of players and negotiations what does he do?' This is very much of the same ilk.

DJ is there to manage, or perhaps more accurately to lead the footballing operations at the club. That means he has to oversee scouting, recruitment, coaching, youth development, club (infrastructure) development, and see that the objectives set by MM are met, to deliver us into the Premiership and keep us there.

Hence your expectation that he should be personally involved in all coaching sessions is imo silly and misplaced. Hopefully you can understand this.

Are you simple? There is a middle ground between all or nothing. It's on record he doesn't attend training regularly.

And a lot of the other duties you mention are dealt with by other people; scouting by scouts for example with DJ liaising with them.

So what else is misguided or ignorant?

[Guest totemowl]

Are you simple? There is a middle ground between all or nothing. It's on record he doesn't attend training regularly.

And a lot of the other duties you mention are dealt with by other people; scouting by scouts for example with DJ liaising with them.

So what else is misguided or ignorant?

'Are you simple?'

A sure sign you've lost the argument. If you don't want a debate, don't get involved in one. I hoped you had the intelligence to discuss the actual point raised. Clearly you don't think you have.

[Manchester_Owl]

It's more realistic that you're jealous...

WOW!

You've just answered sc_owl's question.

[BRADDO]

Dave Jones may as well have the season. We don't have the resources to turn the squad over in January because he spent it all on turning our great 2012 squad over in the summer.

How can we expect anyone else to make this squad into what they want if DJ is struggling despite the fact he put them together?

We might still come good eventually, but right now the continuity is all we have. Disrupting things probably won't work.

He's weeing me off as much as anyone, but that's just how I feel about our prospects... I just want us to be the best we can, and I can't help feeling plenty of damage has been done, but getting rid of Jones will just do more.

Megson never should have gone, and probably should have been given the backing DJ has had through a spell of performances and results as bad as I remember... but MM won't swallow his pride, and Megson wouldn't work with him again. I'd love for Megson to return one day, but it won't be for some time if ever. I would have loved to see the finished Megson product though, because he has a vision far greater than people give him credit for.

Look at us now... we sack Megson in 3rd, go up in 2nd... lose his squad and suck.

Bolton sack Megson after keeping them up and doing well in Europe, do well for a season with his players, change things around and go down, and then suck in the league below.

West Brom sacked him, and it made no difference to their successes really... they continued to yoyo for several years.

Megson is a real manager... and I actually liked the way we played under him in general. I like solid teams who attack down the wings and score in a variety of ways. Now we have no spine and don't even know how we are supposed to play.

Spot on fella