interesting question

[Furious George]

Hate is too strong a word, its not his fault LS appointed him, he merely delivered exactly what Preston fans suggested he would. We just need to undo a terrible mistake now and build on the positivity of MM's inspirational message with the right manager at the helm.

Also as others have said, second is very much a false position when you factor in games in hand as well as the terrible performances that have plagued our season.

There's a difference, hate is a strong word and I wouldn't say I hate him, but I do hate his style of management, his lack of personality and his turgid football.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Furious George

[Guest Big Guns]

There's a difference, hate is a strong word and I wouldn't say I hate him, but I do hate his style of management, his lack of personality and his turgid football.

i just hate him

[Lincowl]

There's a difference, hate is a strong word and I wouldn't say I hate him, but I do hate his style of management, his lack of personality and his turgid football.

Yeah I agree with that then.

[Wolfmanjack]

Success and expectations are relative though.

Also, we are in a false position to a degree by virtue of having played more games than the teams around us.

But, we lost both of those extra games, so we're in a true position.

[Guest Triplej2]

There's a difference, hate is a strong word and I wouldn't say I hate him, but I do hate his style of management, his lack of personality and his turgid football.

Hate is a strong word but he's done nothing to endear himself to us lot, he's pretty much insulted us with the coaching badge comment, he is arrogant enough to constantly pick his under-performing favourites, he took our beloved club down in a near capitulation and now he is ruining our season, a season slap bang in the middle of a recession when we're all looking for a relief.

Truthfully, I'm starting to hate the guy.

[Freshfish]

Inspiration and imagination....the manager mirrors the previous regime in lacking both.

[since59owe]

Apologies for the multiple Irvine out threads, and this is another.

But.

Have you ever known in your footballing life, so much hatred and apathy for a manager whilst your club is second in the league?

Doesn't that speak volumes?

No, but he become so boring.

[Cersei]

MM wants us promoted and the sooner the better as far as he's concerned. The sooner we are promoted, hopefully to the PL, the sooner he can sell us and make a wedge. I haven't got a problem with that, the man rescued us from oblivion and for that alone I'm eternally grateful. He's no mug and will see Irvine for what he is and that's not the right man to take us forward. It's all just a matter of time, I'll take a couple more painful heavy defeats on the bounce if it speeds up his departure.

UTO

YOU REALLY WANT US TO LOSE MATCHES??????? I hate Irvine, he is a moron but i don't want us to lose so he can be sacked!!!

[Lincowl]

YOU REALLY WANT US TO LOSE MATCHES??????? I hate Irvine, he is a moron but i don't want us to lose so he can be sacked!!!

If a heavy boxing day loss saw Irvine sacked and a new manager brought in to spend our transfer budget wouldn't you prefer that to a dead manager walking squandering it?

[Guest Triplej2]

YOU REALLY WANT US TO LOSE MATCHES??????? I hate Irvine, he is a moron but i don't want us to lose so he can be sacked!!!

I also want us to lose the next 2 or 3 to get him sacked.

What's the point of our erratic, win a couple, lose a couple form? it won't get us promoted, it will cost us fortunes in gate reciepts and generally ruin everyone's season.

The big picture mate, look at it!

[DJMortimer]

But, we lost both of those extra games, so we're in a true position.

Surely our true position will be wherever we find ourselves when the other teams play their respective fixtures from when we played Swindon and Exeter? One poster assigned each team their average points per game from these additional fixtures and this dropped us to 7th. I'd argue that that is a truer reflection of what we've done this season.

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

Sorry to disagree on one point, Hootie. In no way would I consider that we have the best squad in the division. IMO we have several under achievers in the squad, and a number who panic under pressure. Whilst in no way being an apologist for Irvine, I don't lay all the blame at his door. I honestly feel that a lot of it lies with the players and their attitudes.

Really? Other than Wednesday, I don't follow football at all. I stopped watching the Premiership years ago, all I can go on is the games I've seen at Hillsborough, and the 3 or 4 away games I've been too. I've regularly seen teams playing better football than us, Huddersfield, Southampton, Chesterfield, Orient, Brighton, in fact every team I have seen at Hillsborough (except Notts County) have played the better football than us. And yet when I 've watched the away teams, none have had any outstanding player, they all look pretty much like league 1 players to me. But they all seem to play better as a team than we do, for me that is laid fairly and squarely at the managers door.

Imagine all the other managers in this division, if they can mould ordinary players into a team that can go to places like Hillsborough and play Wednesday off the park, what would they do with higher calibre players?

Take for instance Tommy Miller, he is the best central midfield player at our club, but it is only recently that he has been given a role in his best position. I think if Tommy Miller played for any other club in this division, he would be given a starting role in the centre of midfield in every game, in fact the team would probably be built around him.

I know Tudgay has now gone, but most Wednesdayites would agree that his best position wasn't has a striker, yet Irvine played him regardless.

I take your point about the players attitudes, one or two have been taking the wee wee, but any manager worth his salt would have stamped down on this. Unless, the players see an opportunity to get rid of the most negative manager we have had since Peter Eustace.

[DJMortimer]

Superbly put Hootie.

I'd add Carlisle to your list too. When they beat us at Hillsborough we couldn't have complained if it had finished 0-4. Individually they had no outstanding players that I remember, they just worked harder than we did collectively and were clearly executing a better plan.

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

Superbly put Hootie.

I'd add Carlisle to your list too. When they beat us at Hillsborough we couldn't have complained if it had finished 0-4. Individually they had no outstanding players that I remember, they just worked harder than we did collectively and were clearly executing a better plan.

I was raking my brains trying to think of the teams we had played and I missed them.

I have been impressed with the standard of football in this division, some of the teams try to get the ball down and play, which surprised me, I haven't seen any hoofball teams, the only team I've seen playing hoofball is us, but now Tudgay has gone, we seem to be at least trying to play a bit of football, it's just the other teams are better at it than we are.

I've sent my wish list off to Santa, two centre halfs and a Paul Scholes type to play alongside Miller please.

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

I also want us to lose the next 2 or 3 to get him sacked.

What's the point of our erratic, win a couple, lose a couple form? it won't get us promoted, it will cost us fortunes in gate reciepts and generally ruin everyone's season.

The big picture mate, look at it!

I don't think it will take 2 or 3, a defeat at Tranmere should seal it.

[dorian gray]

Sorry Wozzer, but I've got to disagree about the manager point. I think if you fetched in any manager worth his salt he'd play to our team's strengths rather than the oppositions. Maybe then we'd see the consistency we all want.

What I do agree with is the players not wanting to play for certain managers. If AI speaks to the players in the same was he does to the fans, i.e. bigging up the opposition, and not focussing on what we can do then I'm pretty sure it's going to wee wee the players off. Does he make the players sit through dvd's of the opposition while he's taking his notes? If he does I imagine he's creating a mind numbingly boring 'workplace' for the squad.

Back to the OP though, if you had said to me at the start of the season that we'd be 2nd at Christmas but the fans wanted the manager out I'd have thought you were crazy. But having watched the games this year I think it's quite justified that we want AI out. Other than the coaching badges, he offers nothing that any of us in sat in the stands don't have.

you can read from the players body language at the hopscotch we used to play at the start of the second half that they are non believers...you can bet some of the senior pro's were thinking are we at infants school......irvine is a limited manager with very limited idea's, he is not really up to this job (just like preston) before money came in...THE BIGGEST MISTAKE SWFC COULD MAKE IS GIVING HIM MONEY, AND MORE TIME, WE ALL KNOW WHETHER THIS MAN HAS IT, OR NOT...

Edited December 19, 2010 by dnhc

[BobsMagicCalculator]

Ive made a definite decision now not to attend until he is gone.

[Hack-Abusi]

After all the BS we heard about who Brian Laws' successor was gonna be - modern manager embracing modern techniques and methods yadda yadda - it was amazingly disappointed to get lumbered with him - a Wilko disciple from the past - never impressed with him at Preston tbh

The insipid and disgusting capitulation last season even though being in a very retrievable position sealed it for me when we didn't even keep pace with those around us and were only temporarily reprieved cos of pacae and their points deduction- never wanted him and he confirmed those fears - this season is just a wee wee take

He can't go soon enough

like Daz, i agree with Scram

the furore built around who the next manager was going to be, a man with experience, a man who would get us up the division, who would stabalise the team and get us playing again, a man (yes i've said it once) with EXPERIENCE

and what do we do??

we shoot ourselves in the foot, bring in a manager who has less then 2 years managerial experience and say he was the best candidate available.

utter rumbleing bobbins

you telling me Irvine was a better appointment then some of the others that were on the market .... and now he is showing what he really is. a coach. nothing more.

[Guest starrydave]

Did anyone watch the FL show...? Once again it was our shocking defence that let us down!!! It made me so andry I was literally shouting at the TV. DP is on 6 flippinggrand a week! He has to be the worst captain SWFC have ever had... he is just THAT BAD!

Irvines biggest criticism is that he didnt sign any centre backs in the summer. A couple of centre backs that actually know what they are doing could guarantee us promotion! I dont care if he's not charismatic to the fans. Thats not his job... He's a 'head coach' type manager. Nothing wrong with that.

Not saying that irvine is perfect, I wouldnt give a throw if he left, but there are two major reasons why we are doing so badly. One is called Darren, the other is Mark!

[DJMortimer]

Not saying that irvine is perfect, I wouldnt give a throw if he left, but there are two major reasons why we are doing so badly. One is called Darren, the other is Mark!

The scorelines in our 8 league defeats :

0-1

0-1

2-3

0-1

0-1

0-2

1-2

1-5

Some might argue the lack of goals at the other end was a rather more consistent failing in those games?