GO, OR STAY

[since59owe]

Have a good go try to be more positive Alan, for next few games and if it does not work, walk away with pride don`t wait to be sacked, man up.

Hope for the best, best wishes Alan.

JB.

[Guest Sheff Owl]

In my opinion Irvine should DEFINATELY stay!

If we look at the facts, last season it was Brian Laws who got us into the relegation mess that Irvine very nearly dug us out of. Irvine was only at Hillsborough for half of last season, and if our points total under Irvine was doubled then we would have been sitting comfortably in mid-table last year.

Onto this season. In the summer Irvine brought in nine new players, which he obviously thought were good enough to help the team win promotion, and I think we all agree these players are capable footballers. I agree that as yet we haven't set League One alight with beautiful passing and good football, however what we've got to take into account is that only 11 games have been played, and despite not playing our best football, we are sat in a play-off position and only two points from 2nd place. Despite being in such a promising position in the league table it seems us wednesdayites STILL are calling for Irvine to get the sack!! He hasn't even been at hillsborough a year yet! And it would be good if Irvine's critics asked themselves this - What has the vast amount of managerial changes over the last decade done for the club??

Because as of my reckoning these are the years where we have slumped year after year after year. The squad Irvine has assembled has hardly had time to gel yet either, we've only played 11 league games and it seems the Hillsborough faithful are wanting Arsenal-like football! Just give Alan Irvine time to prove his managerial quality (after all, look at what he achieved at Preston), and give the squad time to gel and become a team! It's just another typical Sheffield Wednesday fan's over reaction to an on-the-pitch situation that is not at all as bad as it seems.

Hold on a minute last season Irvine took over with 26 games remaining and yes he had a good start (honeymoon period as most Managers do) then we started to play negative, think about the opposition more than ourselves and with 26 games remaining we had enough time to get out of the poo we was in, so instead of trying to get the points on the board early it looked like everything was geared up for the final game with Palace and look what happened imo Irvine blew it big time.

We started to concentrate on keeping clean sheets and then if we can nick a goal then good....but what happened when we went behind....we had not got a clue.

People seem to just look at this season and think it's only 15/16 games (including cups) but it is not he had 26 last season.

He is obsessed with playing the same players no matter what, i mean Potter/JOC is just flipping awful together EVERYONE CAN SEE IT yet out genius of a manager, together they was a huge part of us going down (not just them tho).

He has signed 9 new players how flipping long does he need for them to gel seriously? can we still use this excuse after 25 games? he is not playing some of them and if he does they have a good game and then he drops them for the next - for are they meant to get any consistency?

He refuses to drop certain players, he refuses to sub certain players even tho you can see they have had a stinker - every week it's the same subsitutions you just know what he is gonna do nothing changes - formation does not even change if we are losing with 10 minutes to go..flipping Heffernan can't even get on the pitch then.

The problem is people are not having a go at the position we are in the table, people are pissed of because we are suppose to be going for promotion and we are not playing like that, we are playing to the opposition strengths - everything is about them.

The players are being treated like robots, they have not got any freedom - they concentrate more on defence than attack.

Instead of trying to get the ball back quick the players think about positions and get back into 2 banks of 4 quick, the midfield pair are on the toes of the centre backs and the wingers are so close to the full backs we just invite pressure and constantly do it. We don't create chances much so if you don't do that then what? do you think draws will get us promotion - do you think drawing against say Exeter (no disrespect) is a good result?

We got battered by Bury, Chesterfield easily could have lost that (both League 2 sides) against Leyton Orient we play with 5 in Midfield in the second half (well part of it) what's that about? - is that right for a team at home and going/wanting promotion?

[DJMortimer]

In my opinion Irvine should DEFINATELY stay!

If we look at the facts, last season it was Brian Laws who got us into the relegation mess that Irvine very nearly dug us out of. Irvine was only at Hillsborough for half of last season, and if our points total under Irvine was doubled then we would have been sitting comfortably in mid-table last year.

You've got to be bloody joking. Once the 'new manager effect' was out of the way it was all downhill. Over the course of the last 16 games (ie. a third of a season) we took just 13 points, putting us joint bottom of the form table for that period with Peterborough. And in defence of Laws, I still maintain that much of what happened in his last couple of months was due to matters away from the pitch.

Onto this season. In the summer Irvine brought in nine new players, which he obviously thought were good enough to help the team win promotion, and I think we all agree these players are capable footballers.

True, to a point, but with all those signings why does the team regularly look very similar to the one that Irvine led to relegation in the first place?

I agree that as yet we haven't set League One alight with beautiful passing and good football, however what we've got to take into account is that only 11 games have been played, and despite not playing our best football, we are sat in a play-off position and only two points from 2nd place. The squad Irvine has assembled has hardly had time to gel yet either, we've only played 11 league games and it seems the Hillsborough faithful are wanting Arsenal-like football! Just give Alan Irvine time to prove his managerial quality (after all, look at what he achieved at Preston), and give the squad time to gel and become a team!

As yet? That somehow supposes it's just a matter of time before it all suddenly falls into place and we romp to the title. We should be doing much better than we are. Fans can see that many things Preston fans told us about are happening here too - favourites persisted with no matter how frequently they play badly, a cautiousness bordering on fear of the opposition, a pattern of play that invites pressure at the wrong end of the field and thus leads to avoidable points being dropped, over reliance on front two to scrap for what they can from aimless punts with little support from midfield, promising young players ignored etc. The number of games played might be more of a consideration if Irvine's attitudes hadn't been so resolutely consistent from the outset, not to mention going back to his Preston days. And as for that, it seems to me Preston fans were split pretty much down the middle on Irvine's tenure; hardly the sort of reaction you'd expect if someone had been a monumental success.

Despite being in such a promising position in the league table it seems us wednesdayites STILL are calling for Irvine to get the sack!! He hasn't even been at hillsborough a year yet! And it would be good if Irvine's critics asked themselves this - What has the vast amount of managerial changes over the last decade done for the club??

All this business about sticking with managers is a chicken and egg situation. If they do a good job they won't be sacked will they? It is too simplistic to just list the managers and their tenures as if that in itself is the reason for their failure. Appointments such as Danny Wilson and Chris Turner would not have worked out no matter how long we gave them as they simply weren't good enough. Brian Laws had to go because for whatever reason he had lost the squad and much of the crowd - a situation that was simply not retrievable at that point.

[Guest sheff_wed_fanatic]

You've got to be bloody joking. Once the 'new manager effect' was out of the way it was all downhill. Over the course of the last 16 games (ie. a third of a season) we took just 13 points, putting us joint bottom of the form table for that period with Peterborough. And in defence of Laws, I still maintain that much of what happened in his last couple of months was due to matters away from the pitch.

True, to a point, but with all those signings why does the team regularly look very similar to the one that Irvine led to relegation in the first place?

As yet? That somehow supposes it's just a matter of time before it all suddenly falls into place and we romp to the title. We should be doing much better than we are. Fans can see that many things Preston fans told us about are happening here too - favourites persisted with no matter how frequently they play badly, a cautiousness bordering on fear of the opposition, a pattern of play that invites pressure at the wrong end of the field and thus leads to avoidable points being dropped, over reliance on front two to scrap for what they can from aimless punts with little support from midfield, promising young players ignored etc. The number of games played might be more of a consideration if Irvine's attitudes hadn't been so resolutely consistent from the outset, not to mention going back to his Preston days. And as for that, it seems to me Preston fans were split pretty much down the middle on Irvine's tenure; hardly the sort of reaction you'd expect if someone had been a monumental success.

All this business about sticking with managers is a chicken and egg situation. If they do a good job they won't be sacked will they? It is too simplistic to just list the managers and their tenures as if that in itself is the reason for their failure. Appointments such as Danny Wilson and Chris Turner would not have worked out no matter how long we gave them as they simply weren't good enough. Brian Laws had to go because for whatever reason he had lost the squad and much of the crowd - a situation that was simply not retrievable at that point.

[vontemp]

Go.

His negative hoofball is driving supporters away in their thousands.

[Guest sheff_wed_fanatic]

I agree with some of the things you're saying, but about Brian Laws - you said things off the pitch weren't helping at the time? Well the same applies to Irvine then don't you think? How many winding-up orders since the season started?! It's has been hardly a better off-field situation since Irvine took charge. And about the managers, even Darren Purse said that Irvine is a better tactical manager than Laws - stating that Laws strategy was if the opposition scored 3, then we'll score 4. Maybe our attacking play was better under Laws, but if I remember correctly, our defending was shambolic, which lost us lots of games. Law's win percentage as Wednesday manager was also pretty poor (33.77%).

And what you said about Preston fans being unhappy, their frustration must have been slightly unjustified - Irvine took over when North End were in a relegation battle and led them to 15th, and the following season took them into the play-offs - not a bad couple of seasons was it? And the players clearly wanted to play for Irvine at Preston because they didn't want him to be sacked.

And what other manager available at the minute is going to turn us into an immediate footballing force? I think it's pretty obvious that no manager is going to imminently work wonders at Wednesday with our shoe string budget and off-field problems, and that is why so many managers have failed over the past decade. If you look at Sturrock, his average career win percentage is 40%, however at Hillsborough it was 33%. Paul Jewell's average win percentage is 39%, however at Wednesday it was 31%. Even Danny Wilson (although I admit he did a poor job as Owls manager) has an average of 40%, however as Wednesday manager itwas 28%. Do you see a pattern recurring with these management statistics??

[Lincowl]

Irvine had no resources last season? The ones he did have he spent on bringing back and consistently playing Tom Soares. The one player who made Potter look committed to the cause in our relegation fight.

[DJMortimer]

And what other manager available at the minute is going to turn us into an immediate footballing force? I think it's pretty obvious that no manager is going to imminently work wonders at Wednesday with our shoe string budget and off-field problems, and that is why so many managers have failed over the past decade. If you look at Sturrock, his average career win percentage is 40%, however at Hillsborough it was 33%. Paul Jewell's average win percentage is 39%, however at Wednesday it was 31%. Even Danny Wilson (although I admit he did a poor job as Owls manager) has an average of 40%, however as Wednesday manager itwas 28%. Do you see a pattern recurring with these management statistics??

Are you attempting to educate me regarding our status (footballing, financial and everything related to them) over the last decade or so? I'd just like to point out that I'm not labouring under the illusion that we should somehow be pushing for a Champions League place any time soon.

I appreciate that there have been many, many mitigating circumstances for our managers during that period, Irvine included, but we absolutely should not be struggling to overcome the likes of Leyton Orient, Dagenham & Redbridge, Brentford, Carlisle and Bury, especially when many of the squad should be able to make a decent fist of competing in the Championship.

I would urge you to study more closely the specifics of why we are struggling on the pitch at the moment. I believe a few changes could see us improve our results considerably.

And for the record, as critical of Irvine as I continue to be, I would not demand his dismissal at this point. Not that such an event is likely anyway.

[Guest purplejacketowl]

I mean i'm not irvine's biggest fan by any means, and the games i've been to so far, apart from the 1st half vs D&G and 2nd half vs Notts County have been extremely dull. But i think the only way irvine will go is if we have another run like we did previously (i.e 5 game losing streak/without a win and we slip into the bottom half), because to sack him on the basis on dull football?? Erm we're not Lyon and Real Madrid who sack their managers who get results but still lose their jobs because the football doesn't live up to expectations, our expectations should be to win flipping football games, and worry about the football when we get out of this shuffle division. Plus it doesn't always work look at Sousa at Leicester...and i presume there will be a few more.

So far he's semi-delivered, we're in the play-off positions, and it could be alot better, it also could be alot worse. We may be in for 30 more games of dull, mind, numbing football, but at this level i really couldn't give a poo poo. As long as we're up there and competing for the top 6 places aiming for the top 2 Irvine should stay.

UTO

[gurujuan]

If gates continue to tumble in the face of such negative tactics, he will then be sacked.

[Guest sheff_wed_fanatic]

To be honest I think when JJ is back in the first 11 our attacking play will be much improved, and we might start creating lots more opportunities. But I also think you under estimate League One slightly, as it is an improved league and won't be easy to climb out of (as Leeds found out). The likes of Leyton Orient, Carlisle, Bury and Dagenham and Redbridge, as you mentioned, as well as most of the teams in League One, come to Hillsborough and are happy to go away with a draw. They sit back and get men behind the ball, making it alot more difficult for us to break them down and score, and this has created lots of frustration. I think this is PARTLY the reason for our recent struggle when going forward (as well as the fact we are not playing at our best). In the Championship, it was different, teams were coming to Hillsborough and wanting to take all three points, and therefore they were attacking a lot more often than teams we are playing at the moment. This created lots of space for us to attack, and therefore we could utilise the pace of JJ to open up several options in the final third. That's why I'll be glad when we've got the pace of Johnson back and we can demote Sedgwick to the bench.

[Guest Sheff Owl]

To be honest I think when JJ is back in the first 11 our attacking play will be much improved, and we might start creating lots more opportunities. But I also think you under estimate League One slightly, as it is an improved league and won't be easy to climb out of (as Leeds found out). The likes of Leyton Orient, Carlisle, Bury and Dagenham and Redbridge, as you mentioned, as well as most of the teams in League One, come to Hillsborough and are happy to go away with a draw. They sit back and get men behind the ball, making it alot more difficult for us to break them down and score, and this has created lots of frustration. I think this is PARTLY the reason for our recent struggle when going forward (as well as the fact we are not playing at our best). In the Championship, it was different, teams were coming to Hillsborough and wanting to take all three points, and therefore they were attacking a lot more often than teams we are playing at the moment. This created lots of space for us to attack, and therefore we could utilise the pace of JJ to open up several options in the final third. That's why I'll be glad when we've got the pace of Johnson back and we can demote Sedgwick to the bench.

As much as JJ will improve us, there is no way we can rest our hopes on him...don't get me wrong on his day he can be very good and on others he is a liability, it only takes a team to put 2 men on him and he gets pissed off and then either subbed or sent off...saying all that it also depends on where our manager decides to play him.

As for the bit in bold so if teams come and do that why do we play negative? surely then we won't need too? i mean come on we are hardly creating chances, it's not like the teams are amazing and stopping us doing everything.

We play a way that we look to keep a clean sheet and if we can nick a goal then good but the problem is if we go behind we are buggered!

[Guest mosborough_owls]

Watching Montenegro defend against us last night is exactly like watching teams come to Hillsborough, i feel sorry for Alan, because its hard to break down teams who do that

[since59owe]

Watching Montenegro defend against us last night is exactly like watching teams come to Hillsborough, i feel sorry for Alan, because its hard to break down teams who do that

Well said.

[Guest will_b_goode]

As i said in a previous thread -

Sticking with the same players every week no matter how they play

Players cant get consistency because Irvine plays them one game then they are dropped even if they have had a good game for the 'favourites'.

Bit contradictory...

[Guest frannys ears]

For me its simple, i want to get excited watching Wednesday, I am not. GO.

[Guest scott_andrew_william]

Still he's going to stay for the time being, I like how some people who want Alan out have a problem in booing our players, but they have no problem in calling for the managers head. As for ripping tams apart as some of you have suggested, don't have a go at me for being realistic when it seems that some of you have empty space between your ears.

Facts are; we're in league one and we're poo poo so the sooner people realize this and actually stop trying to get the WRONG PEOPLE out of the job the better.

[since59owe]

Still he's going to stay for the time being, I like how some people who want Alan out have a problem in booing our players, but they have no problem in calling for the managers head. As for ripping tams apart as some of you have suggested, don't have a go at me for being realistic when it seems that some of you have empty space between your ears.

Facts are; we're in league one and we're poo poo so the sooner people realize this and actually stop trying to get the WRONG PEOPLE out of the job the better.

Well pleased with that.

[big john]

Allen out

sorry missing Boardroom

[marconi]

Allen out

sorry missing Boardroom

Have a cigar!