bronco layne , how good was he ?

[bigthinrob]

if you've ever played as part of a c/b 'pairing' you know you have to have each other's back, to supply cover...

i'd be 'covering' everything he did, thinkin' 'has this **** taken a wedge to let somebody through?'

'has he had 5 bob on their c/f to score a hat trick?'

When you think, Layne, Swan and Kay were possibly the 3 most influential players we had, the syndicate had got it stitched up properly big time. All 3 main areas covered!!

[torryowl]

what was the 'charge', match fixing?[/quote

Yes

yes and no .....like i said the charge was" conspiracy to defraud" .i think to lose a game of football on purpose isnt a crime in itself but to do so and make money from gambling on the result was  ......the scam was( i think) that they would lay bets on 3 games as you couldnt bet on single games in those days i think the pools companies did a fixed odds on getting 3 results right on the coupons and thats were they laid the bets .once you start trying it on with them your up against some serious big hitters  .....other clubs involved were mansfield ,bristol rovers ,hartlepool ,york.....if you read the book layne was friends with the supposed ringleader(jimmy gauld ) a former team mate of his at mansfield and thats how he got involved and got  swan & kay in with him .......

[bobbycraig]

How much do you think the average English top division professional footballer earned in the early 1960s? £100 a week? £200 a week?

Would you believe £20 a week in 1961, the year the maximum wage cap was lifted? In 1962, the average "rocketed" to £25 a week, in 1963 it was £29 a week, which is around the time we are talking about when the bribes scandal occurred.

The average wage for top footballers didn't reach £100 a week until 1974. By 1985, £1000 a week, by 1995 £3393 a week. With big money coming into the game from Sky, by 2005 the average was £18,367 a week, and by 2010, £33,868. Heaven knows what the average is now, but Rooney is said to be on  a "basic" £250,000 a week. No need for Wayne to risk his career for a few quid by making a silly bet.

Most footballers in the early sixties couldn't afford to run a car. Johnny Fantham , I believe, lived with his parents in a Council house in Greenhill. They might have earned a bit more than the average worker, but nothing like the huge differences we see today. Please remember this before you judge.

Anyway, I thought this post was about the talent of Bronco and Hirsty as footballers?

[torryowl]

How much do you think the average English top division professional footballer earned in the early 1960s? £100 a week? £200 a week?

Would you believe £20 a week in 1961, the year the maximum wage cap was lifted? In 1962, the average "rocketed" to £25 a week, in 1963 it was £29 a week, which is around the time we are talking about when the bribes scandal occurred.

The average wage for top footballers didn't reach £100 a week until 1974. By 1985, £1000 a week, by 1995 £3393 a week. With big money coming into the game from Sky, by 2005 the average was £18,367 a week, and by 2010, £33,868. Heaven knows what the average is now, but Rooney is said to be on  a "basic" £250,000 a week. No need for Wayne to risk his career for a few quid by making a silly bet.

Most footballers in the early sixties couldn't afford to run a car. Johnny Fantham , I believe, lived with his parents in a Council house in Greenhill. They might have earned a bit more than the average worker, but nothing like the huge differences we see today. Please remember this before you judge.

Anyway, I thought this post was about the talent of Bronco and Hirsty as footballers?

.people would have travelled down to ipswich that day expecting the the team to give 100% that three of them knew before the start that they were going to lose no matter what the other eight did is just so wrong ......what they earned isnt really important , i and no doubt many others on here probably struggle to get by but we dont go and rip off  others to get a little extra ...........

[Dagmeister]

How much do you think the average English top division professional footballer earned in the early 1960s? £100 a week? £200 a week?

Would you believe £20 a week in 1961, the year the maximum wage cap was lifted? In 1962, the average "rocketed" to £25 a week, in 1963 it was £29 a week, which is around the time we are talking about when the bribes scandal occurred.

The average wage for top footballers didn't reach £100 a week until 1974. By 1985, £1000 a week, by 1995 £3393 a week. With big money coming into the game from Sky, by 2005 the average was £18,367 a week, and by 2010, £33,868. Heaven knows what the average is now, but Rooney is said to be on  a "basic" £250,000 a week. No need for Wayne to risk his career for a few quid by making a silly bet.

Most footballers in the early sixties couldn't afford to run a car. Johnny Fantham , I believe, lived with his parents in a Council house in Greenhill. They might have earned a bit more than the average worker, but nothing like the huge differences we see today. Please remember this before you judge.

Anyway, I thought this post was about the talent of Bronco and Hirsty as footballers?

Good post. What they did was wrong but they paid a very heavy price. Prison followed by career end for two and not far off for the other.

Back on topic Bronco was a swashbuckling old fashioned centre forward. Thunderbolt if a shot and scored for fun.

[lesbarbeux]

How much do you think the average English top division professional footballer earned in the early 1960s? £100 a week? £200 a week?

Would you believe £20 a week in 1961, the year the maximum wage cap was lifted? In 1962, the average "rocketed" to £25 a week, in 1963 it was £29 a week, which is around the time we are talking about when the bribes scandal occurred.

The average wage for top footballers didn't reach £100 a week until 1974. By 1985, £1000 a week, by 1995 £3393 a week. With big money coming into the game from Sky, by 2005 the average was £18,367 a week, and by 2010, £33,868. Heaven knows what the average is now, but Rooney is said to be on  a "basic" £250,000 a week. No need for Wayne to risk his career for a few quid by making a silly bet.

Most footballers in the early sixties couldn't afford to run a car. Johnny Fantham , I believe, lived with his parents in a Council house in Greenhill. They might have earned a bit more than the average worker, but nothing like the huge differences we see today. Please remember this before you judge.

Anyway, I thought this post was about the talent of Bronco and Hirsty as footballers?

 

Fair points.....but it is absolutely no justification so have to agree with Torry here

 

.people would have travelled down to ipswich that day expecting the the team to give 100% that three of them knew before the start that they were going to lose no matter what the other eight did is just so wrong ......what they earned isnt really important , i and no doubt many others on here probably struggle to get by but we dont go and rip off  others to get a little extra ...........

 

Am sure I remember reading somewhere that they thought we didn't stand much of a chance anyway, however, on the day they felt they could have got something out of it.

However, I do feel that they were scapegoated and took the rap for many others,maybe some wellknown names too.

 

That said, your last point is valid.

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by lesbarbeux

[owlsdreamer]

Apparently Bronco went out on the wing to avoid being involved.

Wrong what they did but i loved the bloke,Swanny too.

I was talking to bronco a few years ago and told him about the goal he scored against cologne which i never forgot.

Bronco looked at me and said he couldn't remember

Ah well.

How good was he? he could have been as good as he ever wanted to be.

[AlbertOB]

He was my hero

But I was only 9 when he got banned so I dont really remember how good he was. Just that he scored all the time and there was a song about him (that I cant remember either)

I was devastated when they were banned. I couldnt and wouldnt believe it was true. It was like a breavement I cried for weeks. My dad said we shouldve sold him when we had the chance (whenever that was). We sold Kay (the other one) and my Dad said the club knew what they were doing.......dont know how he knew.

 

Then the comeback in the 70s but he was fat and slower and it was his reputation that did it. I think he played a couple of times and did he score once? Swanny came back and was good, not as good as before probably,  but good enough to get a place in the team for quite a while.

[daveyboy66]

Apparently Bronco went out on the wing to avoid being involved.

Wrong what they did but i loved the bloke,Swanny too.

I was talking to bronco a few years ago and told him about the goal he scored against cologne which i never forgot.

Bronco looked at me and said he couldn't remember

Ah well.

How good was he? he could have been as good as he ever wanted to be.

Was the Cologne game the one where he scored and then went off with a dislocated shoulder?

[bigthinrob]

Even though Tony Kay was named in the papers as man of the match?

 

As for throwing it.....well, you obviously haven't read Swanny's auto.

Think he may have had a vested interest in how his name was portrayed in history?

[Jackie Sewell]

Apparently Bronco went out on the wing to avoid being involved.

Wrong what they did but i loved the bloke,Swanny too.

I was talking to bronco a few years ago and told him about the goal he scored against cologne which i never forgot.

Bronco looked at me and said he couldn't remember

Ah well.

How good was he? he could have been as good as he ever wanted to be.

Even I remember that goal.

[VictoryBell]

brian labone was the centre half with bobby moore & flowers as the wing halves .....swan hadnt played for england in nearly a year when the match was played and never played a game under ramsay .......why people think he would have played in the world cup but for the ban is a mystery to me .

 

you could be right ,we´ll never know ......its quite possible if layne hadnt admitted his guilt to the newspaper  then swan & kay may have got away  with it as well but once he had they were well and truly shafted .

In which case, congratulations! The world must be a joyous place to you, being full of mysteries almost everywhere!

P.S. I think people think it because he was a very very very very very good player. You could be right, though - IMO Sir Alf made some very odd team selections throughout his tenure as England manager. I've often thought that a lot of his success was down to that invaluable commodity - luck.

[dunsbyowl]

I have read that he claimed he hated being called Bronco!

 

I met him a couple of times - my Nan and Grandad,  who lived in Brightside,  used to go in his pub - was it the Crown ?.

[VictoryBell]

He was my hero

But I was only 9 when he got banned so I dont really remember how good he was. Just that he scored all the time and there was a song about him (that I cant remember either)

I was devastated when they were banned. I couldnt and wouldnt believe it was true. It was like a breavement I cried for weeks. My dad said we shouldve sold him when we had the chance (whenever that was). We sold Kay (the other one) and my Dad said the club knew what they were doing.......dont know how he knew.

 

Then the comeback in the 70s but he was fat and slower and it was his reputation that did it. I think he played a couple of times and did he score once? Swanny came back and was good, not as good as before probably,  but good enough to get a place in the team for quite a while.

Would that, by any chance, be a take on the theme song from the hit TV series of the time: "Bronco Layne", after which he was nicknamed? In which case it goes:

 

"Bronco, Bronco,

Ridin' across the Texas plain

Bronco, Bronco

Bronco Layne"

 

Must say, I can't remember anybody singing that at Hillsborough - but it was a focking long time ago, now!

Edited February 12, 2016 by VictoryBell

[legendaryswan]

Layne only made his statement after extreme harrasment,the kind of which wouldnt have been allowed a few years later.I dont think in all honesty he knew the gravity of what hed done and the way it was interpreted shocked him.

The reporters hounded him day and night,They knew he was buckeling under their pressure,and they scented blood,tired and battle weary,he  admitted to betting on the other side and implicated the others.

The allegation that they threw the match I cant recall being proved,we were on an awfull run,and they were flying and bang in form.Initially it was considered that Ron Springett had thrown the game,as the others had played ok,Kay especially.

A decent brief would have got Layne away from the reporters,the other two knew he was bieng hounded and hed showed signs of extreme stress and tried to support him,Layne would have said just about anything just for a decent nights kip,he just wanted an end to it,and the two reporters gone,it was very foolish of Layne,but they conned his trust and he got suckered,his link to match fixer Gauld from mansfield made him the prime target,he would cement their story and link in the bigger fish.

Theres no doubt what they did was wrong,but their punishment never fitted their crime,and the fact they were made scapegoats while bigger fish were allowed to prosper was a FAR bigger scandal that still haunts english football,should the truth ever get out.The two reporters thought theyd nailed the lot once the owls trio were found guilty,but were ordered to bury the story after threats were made to the papers owners,and the rest got away.

[daveyboy66]

I have read that he claimed he hated being called Bronco!

 

I met him a couple of times - my Nan and Grandad,  who lived in Brightside,  used to go in his pub - was it the Crown ?.

I have read that he claimed he hated being called Bronco!

 

I met him a couple of times - my Nan and Grandad,  who lived in Brightside,  used to go in his pub - was it the Crown ?.

Yes it was... had a drink with him many times...he did hate the name Bronco...but he said that if the owls fans called him that he was happy

[dorian gray]

How much do you think the average English top division professional footballer earned in the early 1960s? £100 a week? £200 a week?

Would you believe £20 a week in 1961, the year the maximum wage cap was lifted? In 1962, the average "rocketed" to £25 a week, in 1963 it was £29 a week, which is around the time we are talking about when the bribes scandal occurred.

The average wage for top footballers didn't reach £100 a week until 1974. By 1985, £1000 a week, by 1995 £3393 a week. With big money coming into the game from Sky, by 2005 the average was £18,367 a week, and by 2010, £33,868. Heaven knows what the average is now, but Rooney is said to be on  a "basic" £250,000 a week. No need for Wayne to risk his career for a few quid by making a silly bet.

Most footballers in the early sixties couldn't afford to run a car. Johnny Fantham , I believe, lived with his parents in a Council house in Greenhill. They might have earned a bit more than the average worker, but nothing like the huge differences we see today. Please remember this before you judge.

Anyway, I thought this post was about the talent of Bronco and Hirsty as footballers?

as i said before they earn't more than the 'average' man in the street...

and as some of 'the better players in the side' they 'betrayed' sheffield wednesday football club (who paid them more than the average man got)...

and they 'betrayed' the fans (who were on that 'average' wage)...

i was 'very' surprised the club had them back, i was 'astounded' they were applauded and cheered when they came onto the pitch...

[dorian gray]

In which case, congratulations! The world must be a joyous place to you, being full of mysteries almost everywhere!

P.S. I think people think it because he was a very very very very very good player. You could be right, though - IMO Sir Alf made some very odd team selections throughout his tenure as England manager. I've often thought that a lot of his success was down to that invaluable commodity - luck.

or not...

[owlsdreamer]

Was the Cologne game the one where he scored and then went off with a dislocated shoulder?

[torryowl]

In which case, congratulations! The world must be a joyous place to you, being full of mysteries almost everywhere!

P.S. I think people think it because he was a very very very very very good player. You could be right, though - IMO Sir Alf made some very odd team selections throughout his tenure as England manager. I've often thought that a lot of his success was down to that invaluable commodity - luck.

he took a small town 3rd division club to being league champions using tactics that no one had ever used before and then went on to win the world cup ..........i think he must have been a bit more than lucky ......