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Chris Kirkland on leaving Sheffield Wednesday

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4 hours ago, FroggattOwls said:


But you can make good choices to mitigate things, and money helps these good choices. Which footballers have a lot of.

 

Try making 'good' decisions when your whole world is crushed by depression. You can't. Even if you logically know what might be good for you, bringing yourself to do it is often impossible.

 

The idea that you can 'mitigate' your way out of depression fundamentally misunderstands the condition. 

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1 hour ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Try making 'good' decisions when your whole world is crushed by depression. You can't. Even if you logically know what might be good for you, bringing yourself to do it is often impossible.

 

The idea that you can 'mitigate' your way out of depression fundamentally misunderstands the condition. 

There are a plethora of positive things you can do to enhance your mental wellbeing and one of the best things you can do is to talk.

 

I still run things round in my head around an incident in Afghanistan when as a result of an order I gave 2 of my soldiers nearly lost their lives but both survived (thank fornicate). I think quite a lot would I have done things differently? Could I have done differently?

 

Both of the lads don't and never have held anything against me and I am more than grateful of that. One made a complete recovery and carried on in the Army the other was medically discharged at 19 years of age with a wire that will run permanently through his arm and impact his everyday living

 

In hindsight my decisions were correct and the actual incident was a one in a million incident and as such was written into subsequent pre-deployment training exercises. But it never stops me reliving the incident

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1 hour ago, soldierboyblue said:

There are a plethora of positive things you can do to enhance your mental wellbeing and one of the best things you can do is to talk.

 

I still run things round in my head around an incident in Afghanistan when as a result of an order I gave 2 of my soldiers nearly lost their lives but both survived (thank fornicate). I think quite a lot would I have done things differently? Could I have done differently?

 

Both of the lads don't and never have held anything against me and I am more than grateful of that. One made a complete recovery and carried on in the Army the other was medically discharged at 19 years of age with a wire that will run permanently through his arm and impact his everyday living

 

In hindsight my decisions were correct and the actual incident was a one in a million incident and as such was written into subsequent pre-deployment training exercises. But it never stops me reliving the incident




And no amount of money could ever make that go away.

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8 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


Ps just to clarify that with depression/mental health issues you cannot pay to make it go away

 

You just can't

I can support this notion.

 

My son has mental challenges, he’s up and down. Changes like the wind.

 

We give him everything we can, follow all the advice that all the experts have given (NHS and private).  Put him in a cockpit of a small plane, he’s up and away, see you later Dad. Put him in front of strangers and he goes to pieces. 
 

For these conditions, sustained improvement is generally seen when something positive happens and is maintained. 
 

In Kirkland’s case it sounds like the whole package wasn’t worth the anxiety it caused - it was clearly making him ill, and he’s done well to open up about it. 
 

Whilst I think there’s still a lot of ignorance around this, in general the public are much more understanding now than they’ve ever been. Good luck to CW, he’s a nice fella.
 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

Not at all - but from the interview he has given he has given the impression that his mental state wasn't strong enough to come to our club as he wasn't up to the task at hand

 

Not sure he says that specifically, I don't think he knew before hand his mental state wasn't strong enough to come here. More like he has noticed differences since being here and it has taken him aback a bit. He has also said he has taken the downtime to assess his form recently and will be much better prepared and of a more positive mindset to try and make a success of his time with us.

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5 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


I still get the nagging feeling that people think that depression and mental health issues can be bought off with cash, that people in certain jobs are allowed to have mental health issues more than people in other jobs, and that people with money shouldn't really have mental health issues anyway as they're so pampered and lucky.

It’s not that they can be bought off.. it’s just that usually they have some sort of trigger that causes them. If you were to list the main causes of mental health issues amongst men, financial insecurity would be up there as we’re supposed to be bread winners.. as would worries about not being attractive to the opposite sex. Money would help with some of these issues and dealing with the anxiety and trigger events. It’s complicated and there are numerous other causes of mental health problems which are equally as important.. but I’d guess that the percentage of people suffering mental health problems is higher amongst lower income groups.

 

It seems like Kirkland had some sort of OCD and anxiety and moving to a club which was further from his house was a trigger event for him. Because he wanted to be in control and traveling two hours each way meant that he wasn’t. He could have maybe moved house, or if he didn’t want to uproot his family, sign for a club closer to home rather than us. If he was ever anxious about playing in front of a large crowd he never showed it because his performances for us were always very good.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, FroggattOwls said:

*Sigh* 

 

In the article Chris states one of the triggers was a 4 hour a day commute. 
 

That’s absolute madness, no wounder he was stressed and depressed. I would be having to do Wigan to S6 and back every day. At no point have I belittled him. I’ve stated there were many  options available to him that could have made his life less stressful, many many options. Having a flat in Sheffield, hotels, getting a driver. Anything other that commuting four hours a day. I can’t believe swfc didn’t suggest or try and help out. 

 

I can get my head around someone in his position doing a four hour a day commute. It just doesn’t make sense. 

 

One of the triggers was a 4 hour daily commute. yes, the options you have mentioned might have mitigated this but as has been mentioned there would probably then have been other related triggers that might have made his feelings worse.

 

it is clear from the article that seeing his daughter to school and collecting her after was a big part of his normal routine, staying away overnight would probably have made matters worse than a 4-hour commute did.

 

How do you know Wednesday didn't try to help with his situation? He has said before that the club were understanding and helpful.

Edited by hirstyboywonder

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46 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Not sure he says that specifically, I don't think he knew before hand his mental state wasn't strong enough to come here. More like he has noticed differences since being here and it has taken him aback a bit. He has also said he has taken the downtime to assess his form recently and will be much better prepared and of a more positive mindset to try and make a success of his time with us.

I hope he does well, as I do the rest of the team, you never know if we do start playing again this season we could have an outside run at the the playoffs lol

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Footballers have it easier than most in some respects but it earnt and is a high pressure job, especially a keeper. You need to be mentally right to perform and believe in yourself I would imagine. It’s a cutthroat industry.

 

If he was working away from home drilling roads he’d be anxious. If he was sat in a mansion with staff counting his cash he’d be anxious about something else. I think a mind like that plays tricks. In his case it was the concern that his family was upset and he had options. But even going home didn’t help did it, depression and anxiety adapts unfortunately. I wonder if he worries about other stuff now he’s not playing. 

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ERM! flit, change schools, most people do, some work abroad and take the family, some actually stay once the contract has finished, I have a coupe of mates in germany, holland, Norway all took the family, one in perth has now settled. if its where the job is you go.

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I've read (or heard him say) similar in the past and I felt a lot of empathy for him, sent him a tweet a year or two back to let him know that we SWFC fans appreciated his performances and time here with us and never felt he let us down once.

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I really think when Chris Kirkland speaks he makes people less considerate of mental health issues. 

I get at whatever level you're at you kinda take everything for granted and you can still get down and even depressed, hence when top celebrities take their own life despite seemingly have a brilliant one.

But the thing is he's speaking to the press about his issues, they're completely lost on the average person and people just think "all that money and he's moaning about a long commute to work" "he's just soft" etc

The issues he speaks of are none issues for the average working person, you have to be pretty privileged in the first place for these issues to be bothering you. Therefore in my opinion he does no good for mental health awareness.

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15 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I really think when Chris Kirkland speaks he makes people less considerate of mental health issues. 

I get at whatever level you're at you kinda take everything for granted and you can still get down and even depressed, hence when top celebrities take their own life despite seemingly have a brilliant one.

But the thing is he's speaking to the press about his issues, they're completely lost on the average person and people just think "all that money and he's moaning about a long commute to work" "he's just soft" etc

The issues he speaks of are none issues for the average working person, you have to be pretty privileged in the first place for these issues to be bothering you. Therefore in my opinion he does no good for mental health awareness.


 

 

I disagree mate

 

it opens up the conversation 

 

The ignorant or those who don’t understand get education from this who understand the situation and who can apply it to ordinary working man scenarios for the other readers 

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21 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


 

 

I disagree mate

 

it opens up the conversation 

 

The ignorant or those who don’t understand get education from this who understand the situation and who can apply it to ordinary working man scenarios for the other readers 

I'm not sure it does open up a discussion, yes a few of us discuss on here, most people only read the article.

 

Most people read that and come away with 'pappy footballer doesn't know what real work is like'. And in my opinion they're not far wrong.

 

In further discussion, even considering those of us that understand mental health a little bit better still struggle with the questions like "why didn't he just move a bit closer to the ground" like lots of people who have to relocate for work.

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15 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Most people read that and come away with 'pappy footballer doesn't know what real work is like'. And in my opinion they're not far wrong.

 


I think we're getting to the REAL crux of this 

Basically you think he's a pampered footballer so shouldn't have mental health issues so you think it shouldn't be discussed
 

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1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 


I think we're getting to the REAL crux of this 

Basically you think he's a pampered footballer so shouldn't have mental health issues so you think it shouldn't be discussed
 

If the trigger is working far from family on the money he earned that could have easily been remedied couldn't it? 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

If the trigger is working far from family on the money he earned that could have easily been remedied couldn't it? 

 

Doesn't work like that mate.


That's now how mental health works


It's not that logical


PLUS

Let's say he DID move but his kids wanted to stay at their old house with their friends at the school they were settled in. Just one example of something else that can trigger off worry, anxiety, stress and depression. Thinking they were doing the wrong thing by their children. 

It's not as simple as you make out. It just isn't. Nowhere near.

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1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Doesn't work like that mate.


That's now how mental health works


It's not that logical


PLUS

Let's say he DID move but his kids wanted to stay at their old house with their friends at the school they were settled in. Just one example of something else that can trigger off worry, anxiety, stress and depression. Thinking they were doing the wrong thing by their children. 

It's not as simple as you make out. It just isn't. Nowhere near.

You say "it's not logic" "it's not how mental illness works".

 

You seem to think if it's tagged mental illness it can't be questioned, however when engaging with mental health services this is what DOES happen. 

 

I would be interested to know how much family life he really did miss, I would imagine he was home before 5 most days. Therefore the rational thing would be to explain to him that he is spending a normal amount of time with his children. Therefore was it simply the commute that was bothering him and the frustration of lots of driving?

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Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

I would be interested to know how much family life he really did miss, I would imagine he was home before 5 most days. Therefore the rational thing would be to explain to him that he is spending a normal amount of time with his children. Therefore was it simply the commute that was bothering him and the frustration of lots of driving?

 


I don't have the energy today to explain to you how wrong you are

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7 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 


I don't have the energy today to explain to you how wrong you are

You mean your sentiment suggests to you I am wrong but you do not have the necessary knowledge to articulate that lol

I'm not doubting that Kirkland's experience made him depressed, I just don't think his mental health journey is one that many people can use to help their own and if anything is detrimental to raising the awareness of how important it is to make sure you're mentally well.

 

Ultimately as a society we need to be more tolerant of people that have mental health issues but when someone on Monday goes to work and tells their boss that they're struggling mentally, if that boss read Kirkland's interview is it going to make him more or less sympathetic? I think it's the former.

 

 

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