Chris Kirkland on leaving Sheffield Wednesday

[soldierboyblue]

1 minute ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I think the situation is a bit more nuanced than that?

It potentially is and I know quite a few of my very good friends who have suffered PTSD due to Iraq and Afghanistan. However they joined knowing that they might be asked to lay down their lives and put themselves in harms way, a bit like a footballer should fully understand that part of the job is potentially playing in front of very large crowds of people

[@owlstalk]

10 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

If they suffer from playing in front of crowds maybe they should have thought about a different career? There are certain things that go with the territory and being a footballer and playing in front of people is hand in glove

That's suggesting it's really simplistic, or that the depression was there before he became a pro-footballer etc though

It's more complex than that

[soldierboyblue]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

That's suggesting it's really simplistic, or that the depression was there before he became a pro-footballer etc though

It's more complex than that

Mental health issues are indeed complex of that I would never disagree. But surely if you know you are going to choke in front of a large crowd why put yourself in that position in the first place? Kirkland was used to large crowds at Liverpool and his comments about missing family etc are really relevant but this is what a large portion of normal people have to do everyday in order to bring the bread home.

 

With regards to Moses I get that it has impacted him but ultimately if he is found wanting (along with the rest) they should be moved on simple as.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, soldierboyblue said:

Mental health issues are indeed complex of that I would never disagree. But surely if you know you are going to choke in front of a large crowd why put yourself in that position in the first place?

 

1) At what point should he have stepped away exactly?

2) Do you KNOW you choke in front of a large crowd?

3) Surely you would think that you just need to improve and overcome this thing and try to do that? 

[Dick_Turpin]

6 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

It potentially is and I know quite a few of my very good friends who have suffered PTSD due to Iraq and Afghanistan. However they joined knowing that they might be asked to lay down their lives and put themselves in harms way, a bit like a footballer should fully understand that part of the job is potentially playing in front of very large crowds of people

 

Understanding beforehand and actual experience are two different matters though. 

[DJMortimer]

7 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

With regards to Moses I get that it has impacted him but ultimately if he is found wanting (along with the rest) they should be moved on simple as.

 

Are you conflating his mental state with his footballing abilities? No one should have a problem with looking to move a player on if he's judged as not being of the required playing standard. That's the very nature of the profession. 

[@owlstalk]

I still get the nagging feeling that people think that depression and mental health issues can be bought off with cash, that people in certain jobs are allowed to have mental health issues more than people in other jobs, and that people with money shouldn't really have mental health issues anyway as they're so pampered and lucky.

[matthefish2002]

29 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I still get the nagging feeling that people think that depression and mental health issues can be bought off with cash, that people in certain jobs are allowed to have mental health issues more than people in other jobs, and that people with money shouldn't really have mental health issues anyway as they're so pampered and lucky.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say mental health issues can be brought off by cash but do think if you have a certain level of wealth you can afford better treatment and advice to give yourself a better chance of getting over your mental health problem.

 

[Harrysgame]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

That's suggesting it's really simplistic, or that the depression was there before he became a pro-footballer etc though

It's more complex than that

I would think that if the issue had surfaced before they would have not become successful footballers. I hazard a guess that if you tried to join the services with mental health issues similary they would have not been accepted or not allowed front line duty.

However these issues come about from fighting for your country or via everyday life. They need our support to get them through an illness like any other.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say mental health issues can be brought off by cash but do think if you have a certain level of wealth you can afford better treatment and advice to give yourself a better chance of getting over your mental health problem.

 

 

 

If there was a solution you could buy I'd save up for it right now

[Harrysgame]

1 minute ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say mental health issues can be brought off by cash but do think if you have a certain level of wealth you can afford better treatment and advice to give yourself a better chance of getting over your mental health problem.

 

That would be fare to say just like having money to pay for early intervention on any illness may help. 

 

[matthefish2002]

1 hour ago, soldierboyblue said:

Mental health issues are indeed complex of that I would never disagree. But surely if you know you are going to choke in front of a large crowd why put yourself in that position in the first place?

 

The thing is a player could play in a big match and find he thrives on the pressure of a big crowd.
He could then play in another big match some months later and chokes. 

Hard to find a pattern why this happens.

[soldierboyblue]

1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

 

Understanding beforehand and actual experience are two different matters though. 

100% agree but with regards to Moses that's potentially why Monk has said he can go

[soldierboyblue]

45 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I still get the nagging feeling that people think that depression and mental health issues can be bought off with cash, that people in certain jobs are allowed to have mental health issues more than people in other jobs, and that people with money shouldn't really have mental health issues anyway as they're so pampered and lucky.

Not in the slightest - I worked in a profession for over 25 years where you were deemed weak if you asked for help and this put thousands of soldiers in a place none of them wanted or ever foresaw themselves.

 

Each person reacts differently to different situations - but it's like I say if you don't want to get shot at or put yourselves in harms way then the Armed Forces are not the profession for you. A bit like it you don't like playing in front of large crowds of people then football maybe isn't the path you should choose. 

 

With regards to money stopping mental health issues it never has and never will

[soldierboyblue]

7 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

The thing is a player could play in a big match and find he thrives on the pressure of a big crowd.
He could then play in another big match some months later and chokes. 

Hard to find a pattern why this happens.

Bang on - but if a player keeps choking in front of big crowds well then it would be time to move him on irrespective of ability

[soldierboyblue]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

Are you conflating his mental state with his footballing abilities?

Not at all - but from the interview he has given he has given the impression that his mental state wasn't strong enough to come to our club as he wasn't up to the task at hand

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

Not at all - but from the interview he has given he has given the impression that his mental state wasn't strong enough to come to our club as he wasn't up to the task at hand

What about Sam Hutchinson then though?

[soldierboyblue]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

What about Sam Hutchinson then though?

Sam's problems are well documented but not related to not reacting well to big crowds. As we have both agreed on each person is unique and their problems and issues are just that - theirs'

[NorthernOwl]

4 hours ago, FroggattOwls said:

But you can make good choices to mitigate things, and money helps these good choices. Which footballers have a lot of.

 

Try making 'good' decisions when your whole world is crushed by depression. You can't. Even if you logically know what might be good for you, bringing yourself to do it is often impossible.

 

The idea that you can 'mitigate' your way out of depression fundamentally misunderstands the condition. 

[soldierboyblue]

1 hour ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Try making 'good' decisions when your whole world is crushed by depression. You can't. Even if you logically know what might be good for you, bringing yourself to do it is often impossible.

 

The idea that you can 'mitigate' your way out of depression fundamentally misunderstands the condition. 

There are a plethora of positive things you can do to enhance your mental wellbeing and one of the best things you can do is to talk.

 

I still run things round in my head around an incident in Afghanistan when as a result of an order I gave 2 of my soldiers nearly lost their lives but both survived (thank fornicate). I think quite a lot would I have done things differently? Could I have done differently?

 

Both of the lads don't and never have held anything against me and I am more than grateful of that. One made a complete recovery and carried on in the Army the other was medically discharged at 19 years of age with a wire that will run permanently through his arm and impact his everyday living

 

In hindsight my decisions were correct and the actual incident was a one in a million incident and as such was written into subsequent pre-deployment training exercises. But it never stops me reliving the incident