Hutchinson, Westwood and Voldemort.

[darra]

Westwood couldn't get in the Republic side even though he was acknowledged as the best keeper in the championship. They played the Millwall keeper who wasn't even a regular for Millwall iirc

[Steve Down South]

Regardless of their attitude behind the scenes (I’ve no idea on this and neither have most people on here):

- Westwood shouldn’t have been offered a 2 year deal.

- Hutchinson is a centre half and not good enough in midfield for a team with top 6 aspirations.

 

These two played an important part in our (almost) glorious past, but have no part to play in our future.

[pat blondeau]

16 minutes ago, darra said:

Jos left them out of the squad

Monks leaving them out of the squad

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

Can only comment on what I see on the pitch, no idea what they’re like in training or in the dressing room.
 

But we’re a much better team when Westwood and Hutchinson are playing

[pat blondeau]

Just now, Steve Down South said:

Regardless of their attitude behind the scenes (I’ve no idea on this and neither have most people on here):

- Westwood shouldn’t have been offered a 2 year deal.

- Hutchinson is a centre half and not good enough in midfield for a team with top 6 aspirations.

 

These two played an important part in our (almost) glorious past, but have no part to play in our future.

Agree to an extent but have you ever seen us as badly as that tonight with Westwood and Hutchinson in the team?

 

For the remainder of this season they still should be involved 

[oldishowl]

Westwood is a waste of space.

Appears to fake injury to play and train when he wants.

ROI left him out of numerous squads because of this .

Hutch I think does care but probably wants to do things his way or no way. Can’t believe it’s anything other than a clash over playing role and tactics which has escalated. Whether Hutch is right is irrelevant, he ain’t the boss.

 

The worse thing is they are probably laughing as they look at their bank accounts every month

[Hirstys Salopettes]

1 minute ago, rickygoo said:

That’ll stand up in a court of law. They’re clearly guilty.

Football managers are all former players. They know that football and egos go hand in hand.  They have no such problem managing such egos.  They often pick players who they cannot stand personally as long as they deliver on the pitch.  They only bomb out players as an absolute last resort, particularly when their replacement is a vastly inferior. 

 

My comment doesn’t need to stand up in a court of law? Im not alleging any criminality or breach of contract, hence players are still being remunerated. 
 

 

[Steve Down South]

Just now, nilsson said:

Agree to an extent but have you ever seen us as badly as that tonight with Westwood and Hutchinson in the team?

 

For the remainder of this season they still should be involved 

We were truly shocking - very worrying times!  Based purely on ability, would be happy to see both involved in remaining games this season, at least until our place in the Championship is secure.  Problem is, we have no idea if / when points deduction would kick in, so our fate may remain unclear until season is over.

[Dick_Turpin]

1 minute ago, Hirstys Salopettes said:

Football managers are all former players. They know that football and egos go hand in hand.  They have no such problem managing such egos.  They often pick players who they cannot stand personally as long as they deliver on the pitch.  They only bomb out players as an absolute last resort, particularly when their replacement is a vastly inferior. 

 

My comment doesn’t need to stand up in a court of law? Im not alleging any criminality or breach of contract, hence players are still being remunerated. 
 

 

Some managers have huge problems managing players with big egos. Danny Wilson struggled with Di Canio and Carbone for example. 

 

 Why do you think Bullen brought them straight back after Jos was sacked? He must know what they are like. 

 

I’m not saying they’re blameless btw. I simply don’t know. It’s the certainty based on speculation that bugs me. 

[Dot]

9 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Westwood is a waste of space.

Appears to fake injury to play and train when he wants.

 

 

he doesn't though does he, the manager uses that as an excuse for not picking him.

remember Jos explaining that Westwood was injured that's why he isn't playing....Westwood himself said no I am not injured.

 

pure speculation but as I say I reckon senior players are calling out the terrible tactics

[Dick_Turpin]

10 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Westwood is a waste of space.

Appears to fake injury to play and train when he wants.

ROI left him out of numerous squads because of this .

Hutch I think does care but probably wants to do things his way or no way. Can’t believe it’s anything other than a clash over playing role and tactics which has escalated. Whether Hutch is right is irrelevant, he ain’t the boss.

 

The worse thing is they are probably laughing as they look at their bank accounts every month

Hutch plays like every game could be his last - which given his various issues is understandable. I would think he’d much rather be playing. 

[Dot]

Imagine Alex Ferguson dropping Cantona because of his attitude?

 

managers manage

[markg]

1 hour ago, DidOwl said:

If, as others are speculating, these two are undermining the management, then they need hanging out to dry. He who should not be named (at piggy United), would rip their nuts off;and quite rightly so. Get a grip.

Dirty pig would have shipped them out. Unfortunately we dont get rid of players. 

[markg]

27 minutes ago, nilsson said:

Agree to an extent but have you ever seen us as badly as that tonight with Westwood and Hutchinson in the team?

 

For the remainder of this season they still should be involved 

Yes we have played badly with those in the team loads of times. 

[Hirstys Salopettes]

Just now, rickygoo said:

Some managers have huge problems managing players with big egos. Danny Wilson struggled with Di Canio and Carbone for example. 

 

 Why do you think Bullen brought them straight back after Jos was sacked? He must know what they are like. 

 

I’m not saying they’re blameless btw. I simply don’t know. It’s the certainty based on speculation that bugs me. 

 

‘Bullen brought them straight back after Jos was sacked? He must know what they are like’.  Absolutely. He knew they would improve the team.  He also knew this would improve his chances of getting the job.

My point is Garry Monk also knows what they are like.  Managers don’t mind players questioning their tactics.  They don’t mind they being outspoken and always want the ‘dressing room to manage itself’. 
 

I bet 100 percent of managers can deal with this kind of attitude and ego.  As you referenced it, I have no doubt Danny Wilson could deal with egos like Di Canio and Carbone had they stayed within boundaries.
 

Its only when a line is crossed that players get bombed. 

Do you seriously think Monk is picking Pelupessy ahead of others and some players are having no interaction at all with the first team squad because they questioned a selection or shouted at a fellow player for meshing a tackle? It’s not speculation, it’s glaringly obvious that a line has been crossed. 
 

oh and for what it’s worth I think Monk is making a dogs dinner of the task at hand ... then again he hasn’t got the experience and track record in the game that Bruce had which is why I speculate that those with alleged egos and attitude daren’t cross the line. 

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

28 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Westwood is a waste of space.

Appears to fake injury to play and train when he wants.

ROI left him out of numerous squads because of this .

Hutch I think does care but probably wants to do things his way or no way. Can’t believe it’s anything other than a clash over playing role and tactics which has escalated. Whether Hutch is right is irrelevant, he ain’t the boss.

 

The worse thing is they are probably laughing as they look at their bank accounts every month

Westwood is a waste of space? Who was that keeper who kept about 50 clean sheets in 3 years when we made the play offs twice

 

so what if they don’t train, when they play we win games and for £40 a ticket, that’s what I want to see

[pat blondeau]

1 minute ago, markg said:

Yes we have played badly with those in the team loads of times. 

As bad as that? Name a game when we played that badly with those two in the team. We were all over the place tonight

[markg]

Just now, nilsson said:

As bad as that? Name a game when we played that badly with those two in the team. We were all over the place tonight

To be honest I haven't seen any of the match, just had it on the radio so you might be right.  

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Steve Down South said:

Regardless of their attitude behind the scenes (I’ve no idea on this and neither have most people on here):

- Westwood shouldn’t have been offered a 2 year deal.

- Hutchinson is a centre half and not good enough in midfield for a team with top 6 aspirations.

 

These two played an important part in our (almost) glorious past, but have no part to play in our future.

 

I'd rather they were given the opportunity to play in our present because without them we aren't getting anywhere. The last time Hutchinson played we won and he played a big part, be nice to have an indication of what he has done since then that is so serious as to be excluded at the expense of the quality of the team. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, nilsson said:

As bad as that? Name a game when we played that badly with those two in the team. We were all over the place tonight

We never play as badly as that with them in the team.. can probably count on one hand the number of times we lost by more than the odd goal under Carlos and Bruce with them playing over 3 years

 

A proper manager would have rightly dropped Westwood after his clangers earlier this season and given Dawson a go. Then he would have dropped Dawson for Westwood about 6 games ago.. it’s called competition for places and managing the squad effectively. Except Monk drops Westwood, they fall out and now he’s nowhere to be seen

[OwlAbroad]

Not sure why it's automatically assumed that Westwood and Hutch are out to undermine the manager and the team, just because Monk leaves them out.

 

Maybe they are, but we don't know what's going on and shouldn't so be quick to judge based on little info.

 

They've both been committed servants of the club and both contributed massively to our success in more recent times.

 

It may well be that they are very vocal in training / the dressing room and Monk doesn't like that (and I can see that being Jos' issue as well). Doesn't mean they are out to undermine him.

 

To be fair, I'd rather have their voices in the dressing room than more of Monk's clueless approach and inane post-match musings...doubt that inspires many players.

 

And what is clear is that there was an upturn in our performances when Westwood and Hutch were reinstated last time and they cover two positions in desperate need of a refresh at the moment.

 

In the absence of other suitable options to freshen up those positions, they need to be reinstated.