McRightSide Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 It's a classic German formation. Basically their equivalent of 4-4-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 My one and only concern with DJ is his tactially inflexibility, we were told right from the moment he was appointed that it would be 4-4-2 all the way (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/football-league-blog/2012/mar/05/dave-jones-sheffield-wednesday) even if it didn't suit the players. From what we've seen so far this seems pretty accurate. Its the same with England, the players England actually have (e.g. lots of pacey wingers who are more inside forwards, not enough good strikers) doesn't actually suit a 4-4-2 but for some reason there is still this myth that its the only formation we can play and Hodgson seems addicted to it. Hope DJ will gain that flexibility because over a long hard season in the Champs we will need a variety of formations, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff_Owl Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If fans from previous clubs had a neg about DJ it was because he was tactically inflexible, he liked 4-4-2 and that is what you expected. I wonder how true that is, it seems like trying to accommodating the talent of Pecnik might prove us either way. Does depend if you say that a 4-2-3-1 is a 4-4-2 with a trequartista* as a second striker. *(Learned that from FM of course..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 If you want to brush up on your 4-2-3-1 history have a read of this (this blog should be compulsory reading for all football fans anyway) http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeshater Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Team I'd start at Derby: --------------Kirkland----------------------- Buxton---Llera---Gardner---Mattock---- -----------Semedo-----Coke--------------- Antonio--------Pecnik-----------JJ--------- ----------------O'Grady---------------------- Pecnik and COG's link up play was class vs Oldham. Madine/Maguire didn't look at the races so could come off the bench if it isn't working vs. Derby. Possibly play McCabe with Semedo if he can play. As above but leave reda in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff_Owl Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If you want to brush up on your 4-2-3-1 history have a read of this (this blog should be compulsory reading for all football fans anyway) http://www.guardian....jonathan-wilson Read my mind. Never got around tor reading that yet, but I do like to hear JW rambling about the finer points of tactics. Like a mad man in a dark cellar watching endless youtube videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Could we have accidentally stumbled on a winning formula tonight? I thought our problems in the 1st half were: 1. That we were too open with only Semedo doing any work to help the defence 2. Our wingers were nullified as they were starting too far back as part of a bank of 4 in midfield. With the enforced changes could we have accidentally stumbled on a winning formula? When we brought on an extra midfielder we had more control of possession and our wingers pushed on a received the ball higher up (e.g. Antonio's goal) where they can do damage. Also Cogba's battling performance created space for our creative trio - JJ, Pecnic, Antonio - to work in. If Madine/Maguire are gonna be out could this be a formula that works on Saturday? Semedo & Coke (I'd actually be very happy with Semedo & Prutton or Anado) sitting then the three creative attackers doing the damage with COGba doing their donkey work & hopefully popping up with a couple more? That's modern football! Not sure we stumbled across it...I'm sure DJ has a few cards/formations up his sleeve. Edited August 14, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeswfc3 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Derby is certainly a bit of a thinker for Jones now... The only definite starters are Kirkland, Gardner, Semedo, Antonio and maybe Llera for me. Pecnik can only be played in the hole or as a striker after that surely. Got a feeling JJ may be left on bench. Prediction (not necessarily the team I'd pick): ..Mattock.............................Kirkland Reda Buxton..........Gardner.......Llera.......Mattock .....................Semedo.......Coke Antonio..........................................M. Jones JJ ......................Pecnik ...................................Madine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Read my mind. Never got around tor reading that yet, but I do like to hear JW rambling about the finer points of tactics. Like a mad man in a dark cellar watching endless youtube videos. The man is a legend. Heard a story about him going to a football based pub quiz and the first question came up asking about penalty scorers in one of the European Cup finals from the 70s and he turned to the captain of the team and said "oh I watched this the other day". The captain knew they were in for a good night then and there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest foreverSWFC Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Maguire has got too start against Derby, that is why he was taken off IMO. His old club who treated him like crap, he'll be out to prove a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Maguire has got too start against Derby, that is why he was taken off IMO. His old club who treated him like crap, he'll be out to prove a point. Think he's going to have to be a little bit tougher than he was against Oldham last night. Early days of course, but one of our numerous problems last night, was the fact that him and Madine simply couldn't get the ball to stick in the Oldham part of the pitch. DJ should really go with the front two that finished that game last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest foreverSWFC Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Think he's going to have to be a little bit tougher than he was against Oldham last night. Early days of course, but one of our numerous problems last night, was the fact that him and Madine simply couldn't get the ball to stick in the Oldham part of the pitch. DJ should really go with the front two that finished that game last night. I would 100% go with Maguire. He didn't get into the game enough last night, don't think you can single him out, the whole team played crap. The team were to blame for not getting the ball down and playing in the first half. Not much Maguire could have done when the midfield were being dominated by Oldham, had little service or support. Clough fooked him over at Derby, he will certainly want to prove a point, i reckon DJ took him of to rest him for Saturday. Maguire will be all fired up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'll apologise for labouring this point but JJ on the right and Antonio on the left seemed to suit both of them far better. JJ is wasted on the left whilst Antonio actually seemed to revel in it and showed he's got the ability to cross left footed, which JJ can't. Anyone else got a view on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I'll apologise for labouring this point but JJ on the right and Antonio on the left seemed to suit both of them far better. JJ is wasted on the left whilst Antonio actually seemed to revel in it and showed he's got the ability to cross left footed, which JJ can't. Anyone else got a view on this? Antonio did very well coming in from the left, something we hardly saw him do last season. Think both are probably best on the left as they aren't the kind of wingers who get the ball and cross early (e.g. Treacy) and are more likely to cut inside, run at the defence and shoot. Overall though I'd like to see them swapping frequently and interchanging position, really confuses the oppo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Antonio did very well coming in from the left, something we hardly saw him do last season. Think both are probably best on the left as they aren't the kind of wingers who get the ball and cross early (e.g. Treacy) and are more likely to cut inside, run at the defence and shoot. Overall though I'd like to see them swapping frequently and interchanging position, really confuses the oppo. I've noticed that when they are on the left and cut in, JJ tends to go across the pitch but Antonio burst inside his man and went forward due to his extra physical presence, whether that was because it was an Oldham right back or not I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfc-dan Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Agree that 4-2-3-1 does sound work a try from the start. And this is coming from a big 4-4-2 fan. Our lack of other strikers and M&M not firing yet mean that it could be more effective for now. Seems we need to play Picnic in the hole to get the best out of him also. And JJ and Antonio clearly loved the space/freedom they had in that 2nd half. I'd probably play Coke alongside Semedo if McCabe isn't signed (don't know enough about Amado yet), and don't see a reason to change Cogba as the lone striker after that performance. Tbf you could even play it with Madine up front and Maguire just behind too id imagine, once they start to hit their stride. Will be interesting to see if DJ changes things, hope he does. This formation could just turn out to work ideally. Edited August 14, 2012 by swfc-dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) I've noticed that when they are on the left and cut in, JJ tends to go across the pitch but Antonio burst inside his man and went forward due to his extra physical presence, whether that was because it was an Oldham right back or not I don't know. Fair point, I think JJ could even do the Pecnic role in behind O'Grady (3 players interchanging is the Championship ready for that!?) but overall worked better in second half when with the extra security provided by the additional CM behind them they received the ball further up the pitch. Then you only have to beat one man to shoot/cross rather than at least two. This was also one of England's MASSIVE problems at the Euros. As Woy insisted on only playing 2 in the middle his wingers had to sit relatively deep to support the bank of four which meant he chose the steady work horse wingers in Milner and Young rather than the explosive paces of Walcott and Chamberlain pushed further up the pitch. Edited August 14, 2012 by beloved_aunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football=owls Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Had to reply that I haven't read this much sense on here in a very long time. Totally agree with the freedom 4-2-3-1 would give our attacking players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Said ages ago on here how I believe that evolution in football brought through 4-2-3-1 as best tactic today, simply because it gives you most flexibility if played right. Though for tactic to work you need couple of outstanding wingers, and striker who iant afraid to both take and give some right beating. I was argued how English players would never fit into such system. Brandan Rodgers wouldn't agree with that one I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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