gurujuan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The starting eleven that finished the season would wipe the floor with anything we can currently muster........but we're not finished yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Distraught! Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There's a really weird perception amongst a worryingly large or vocal set of football fans who seem to think a chairman's job is to put money into a football club. Why the hell should a person charged with running, organising and looking after the interests of a football club put their own money into it? A good chairman is one that makes the club profitable and successful both now and in the future. The millionaire fan who is happy to put his own money into a club with no expectation of a return like Jack Walker is such a rarity that that should be admired, not expected. I'm delighted that under Mandaric we've increased revenues, gone up a division and started playing more attractive football in order to draw in more fans. If he did start spending the club's money on players that were not worth it I'd lose a lot of respect for him. He's doing a great job. But there is a very fine blancing act to be performed between maintaining the status quo and moving the club forward. Mandaric deals in football clubs for profit. I doubt anyone would argue against that when looking at his past history. But how to make a profit? He claims (not unrealistically) to have already invested twenty million or there abouts. Therefore, to make a reasobale return on the investment, he must be looking at northwards of 30 million as a sales figure. He will only do that by planned investment. He knows the club is capable of attracting 30,000+ supporters paying full price for the tickets but the only way of achieving that is to invest in a team capable of attracting such crowds. The value of the club will also diminish rapidly if engaged in a relegation dogfight. The way to avoid that is to invest in a strong enough squad. The club's value will increase exponentially if in a position to push for promotion or after achieving promotion. The way to achieve that is strong, targetted investment. I am not advocating stupidity and throwing lots of money at things. That would be a sure fire way to return us to the dark days of the last 15 years. But there is a strong case for clear, rational investment. I don't think the kind of investment we need for pushing on has been reached yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Guns Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 He's obvs warmed to you. And I bet you owt he presses the view any way button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 All this rhetoric about being patient, building the squad, enjoying the moment, being in a good place etc is fine as long as people's patience is rewarded in the end. It may well be, we have until the end of August to complete transfers, and then there's the loan market too, but as we've seen previously, if you're still trying to bed down a new set of players long after the season has started, you can take a while to get up to speed, which is not an ideal situation when it's going to be a very competitive season anyway. Ideally, you want your players together early, working together in pre-season, and you are then best placed for making a flying start. For fans' patience to be rewarded, they need to see a squad capable of competing at the top end of this division. I have no doubts about DJ's ability to identify the right players to meet this objective, but the longer time goes on without us securing the services of the qauality players we need, the more unsettled people become, and then they start doubting our ability to achieve our objectives.To suggest people should calm down may well be sound advice, however it does not alter people's current perceptions nor negate their frustration over a seemingly never ending inability to close deals for the quality signings we require. We can identify as many quality players as we like, and talk to as many clubs as we like, but sadly talking alone doesn't sign quality players. We are in danger of missing out on some quality players because of our dithering, it's already happened with Norris, and it may happen with Antonio. We continue to build and prepare for the new season with players who will leave, and without 5 to 6 players we are told we need. I'd say that was something people could get frustrated about with justification. Just to add a different perspective like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simaniac Owl Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The insult seems to have switched from 'Lidl players' to 'freebies'. So in some people's minds, we're going backwards, we can't even afford to shop at Lidl anymore. What frustrated me today was, we're linked with - what looks like - a promising Danish youngster. I see the report on SSN and expect to come on OT and see the news being greeted, but instead, it's met with derision that we haven't had a bid accepted. I'm impressed with the patient transfer policy so far. I just think now is such a great time to be an Owl, that if you can't enjoy it, when can you. Every player we've brought in so far seems to make sense. DJ's doing what he said he'd do: he's building for the now and building for the future. Honestly? How long have you been using Owlstalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan_Pepper Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 ...The way to achieve that is strong, targetted investment.I am not advocating stupidity and throwing lots of money at things. That would be a sure fire way to return us to the dark days of the last 15 years. But there is a strong case for clear, rational investment. I don't think the kind of investment we need for pushing on has been reached yet. I'm not saying we don't need more player or better players. Just that there are player limits on the premier league and an increasing number of teams in financial trouble. There are bargains to be had out there and looking at them first is definitely a good strategy. If we went out and spent £2Million on a striker in June what's the chance of us getting a good deal at any point for the rest of the window. All other clubs would see that we are spending and triple their valuation of any players we want. I'm fairly sure we are going about things the right way and we will get some width, a striker and a centre half in in the next few weeks. We've signed 8 players. Most teams have signed 3 or 4. Can you imagine what this forum would be like if we were Charlton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There is a direct correlation between budget and success, so it stands to reason, the teams with the biggest budgets will generally be found at the top. Likewise those whose budget is at the lower end of the scale will normally be the ones that struggle. In theory, on our gates, we should have one of the biggest budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Further, to add to my post above, a key success indicator is a company's ability to manage it's customers' expectations, and to carry the customers with them on their voyage to where they are heading. Our expectations are quite high at the moment after promises to take this club to the Premiership, to bring in players who will get us out of this division, to secure the services of Antonio etc. this is a bar set high not by ourselves, but by Milan himself. Yet we currently see ourselves falling short of where we should be by now in our preparations for the coming season. PR is good, the successful companies use PR to their advantage, but there is always the danger of it misfiring if expectations are set too high. The way to remedy any potential breakdown in customer relations is to 1)Deliver elements of the overall plan early enough to convince everyone everything is still going according to plan or 2)Lower customer expectations by setting less ambitious targets We've done neither so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 anyone think aldridge is the one who drags out these deals? tbh I'm not in on the negotiations, but every thing I've heard and read about MM re this and previous clubs and especially due to the fruitless chip away sagas lately, I get the overriding impression PA is sent into a deal to protect MM's reputation as a hard man to get money off. So If you are in this to admire the bottom line there's a lot to be said for this prudence If it's your a fan and you think we need quality it's flipping frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Further, to add to my post above, a key success indicator is a company's ability to manage it's customers' expectations, and to carry the customers with them on their voyage to where they are heading. Our expectations are quite high at the moment after promises to take this club to the Premiership, to bring in players who will get us out of this division, to secure the services of Antonio etc. this is a bar set high not by ourselves, but by Milan himself. Yet we currently see ourselves falling short of where we should be by now in our preparations for the coming season. PR is good, the successful companies use PR to their advantage, but there is always the danger of it misfiring if expectations are set too high. The way to remedy any potential breakdown in customer relations is to 1)Deliver elements of the overall plan early enough to convince everyone everything is still going according to plan or 2)Lower customer expectations by setting less ambitious targets We've done neither so far Furthermore, it is the right of every customer to voice their opinions. Pressure from customer groups is a good thing as it often delives enough pressure to get things moving in the right direction. Who'd be surprised if we then signed Antonio and the Danish fella. Have a good moan, it's good for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think we should have used transfer teasers...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Or cashews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The season would normally be starting by now, just as an aside. Have we given ourselves an extra two weeks holiday rather than use the additional two seeks to our advantage? We've missed a trick there if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan_Pepper Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There is a direct correlation between budget and success, so it stands to reason, the teams with the biggest budgets will generally be found at the top. Likewise those whose budget is at the lower end of the scale will normally be the ones that struggle. In theory, on our gates, we should have one of the biggest budgets. Yeah that Italian economist did the study about league performance and relation to budget. Was a good study actually. He did also deduce that some managers have an ability buck that trend, Sturrock being one of those who consistently out performs budget expectations in the English league .There were others but I forget who they are. As the number of players transferring on Bosmans increases and the 25 player premier league squads have an effect though I think we'll start to see the wage portion of the budget have more of an effect than the transfer fee portion. Just speculation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris E Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Football fans are more interested in seeing top players, and good football, rather than balance sheets. And would moan if we get back into the financial mire. We have to be sustainable. The first step is being competitive in the Championship. I think we're well on the way to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 And would moan if we get back into the financial mire. We have to be sustainable. The first step is being competitive in the Championship. I think we're well on the way to that. My statement still stands and as normal, I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Dave Jones + supportive chairman + quality players = success Sucess = profit Wisely managed profit = sustainability Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Of course, I'm basically thick, and a nobber, so I may be wrong on all fronts. *Accept this statement as a disclaimer* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The people who reckon we have a weaker squad now than the one we finished L1 with, I don't get at all. We are stronger in Goalkeeping, Central Defence, Full Back and Central Midfield positions. Lowe out/Maguire in would seem to me to be a slight strengthening (Harewood instead of Ranger, slight weakening imo) so overall about parity in the striker positions. Wide positions we are without Antonio and Treacy so are clearly weaker in this area and we could argue that this is the area that supplies the goals chances. No doubt DJ/MM/PA are well aware of this and are working to rectify the situation. But IMO we are stronger in four positional areas and weaker in only one. So I don't get it...! Marmite Cashews are fookin' Ace, though...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The people who reckon we have a weaker squad now than the one we finished L1 with, I don't get at all. We are stronger in Goalkeeping, Central Defence, Full Back and Central Midfield positions. Lowe out/Maguire in would seem to me to be a slight strengthening (Harewood instead of Ranger, slight weakening imo) so overall about parity in the striker positions. Wide positions we are without Antonio and Treacy so are clearly weaker in this area and we could argue that this is the area that supplies the goals chances. No doubt DJ/MM/PA are well aware of this and are working to rectify the situation. But IMO we are stronger in four positional areas and weaker in only one. So I don't get it...! Marmite Cashews are fookin' Ace, though...! I agree entirely. Those marmite cashews you shared with me were ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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