Time to wipe the slate clean?

[Wath-owl]

Alan Irvine has passed the point of no return now as far as the fans are concerned. His popularity is bordering on Dave Allen and Kaven Walker's.

I'm not going to chant Irvine out or boo the players, but I still can't wait to see the back of him, he's simply not up to the job and the longer he stays the bitterness and apathy will only continue to grow. The only way to properly wipe the slate clean amongst fans is to bring in a new management team and completely freshen the club up.

It would instantly unify the fans as we'd all be pulling in the right direction with renewed optimism...a new chairman and a new coaching staff, all ties to the previous regime gone.

Alan Irvine is just brewing into the perfect storm at the moment. We weren't exactly happy with Irvine's excellent brand of hoofball earlier in the season, but there were still positives, we were picking up points, we were a constant fixture in the top 6, the defence was pretty solid in spite of our abysmal midfield.

But once you go from playing terribly and picking up decentish points...to playing terribly and getting hammered on quite a regular basis...in league 1 with a budget such as ours, then name me any football club's fans that wouldn't have reacted as we have over the last few weeks. To be honest I can think of many other clubs who would hold protests for a lot less.

Have to say this is a good thread with some great discussion so far, the opening post was very thoughtfully written and I do see where you're coming from, but I simply can't wipe the slate clean for Irvine, the damage is done and he's quite simply not the right man to lead us. I just wish he'd have the dignity to resign, and wipe the slate for us, with his best wishes so to speak.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Wath-owl

[Guest Sheamus]

Alan Irvine has passed the point of no return now as far as the fans are concerned. His popularity is bordering on Dave Allen and Kaven Walker's.

I'm not going to chant Irvine out or boo the players, but I still can't wait to see the back of him, he's simply not up to the job and the longer he stays the bitterness and apathy will only continue to grow. The only way to properly wipe the slate clean amongst fans is to bring in a new management team and completely freshen the club up.

It would instantly unify the fans as we'd all be pulling in the right direction with renewed optimism...a new chairman and a new coaching staff, all ties to the previous regime gone.

Alan Irvine is just brewing into the perfect storm at the moment. We weren't exactly happy with Irvine's excellent brand of hoofball earlier in the season, but there were still positives, we were picking up points, we were a constant fixture in the top 6, the defence was pretty solid in spite of our abysmal midfield.

But once you go from playing terribly and picking up decentish points...to playing terribly and getting hammered on quite a regular basis...in league 1 with a budget such as ours, then name me any football club's fans that wouldn't have reacted as we have over the last few weeks. To be honest I can think of many other clubs who would hold protests for a lot less.

Have to say this is a good thread with some great discussion so far, the opening post was very thoughtfully written and I do see where you're coming from, but I simply can't wipe the slate clean for Irvine, the damage is done and he's quite simply not the right man to lead us. I just wish he'd have the dignity to resign, and wipe the slate for us, with his best wishes so to speak.

Do another Terry Yorath! probably recieved greater respect for that, than he ever did in charge.

[trevdi9]

HE HAS TO EARN OUR SUPPORT ;

AND SO FAR HE AINT DONE THAT HAS HE.

[Guest Sheamus]

HE HAS TO EARN OUR SUPPORT ;

AND SO FAR HE AINT DONE THAT HAS HE.

had to chuckle

[trevdi9]

I do try sheamus mate,

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

I strongly feel that there has been a negative atmosphere around the club for the past few years that is holding the club back. It lingers like a mist of gloom that casts a shadow over the club and sucks the enthusiasm out of the fans and subsequently the staff. It makes Hillsborough feel like a place of failure, depair and resignation.

As a fanbase, we are like the guy who lost it all and can't come to terms with it and now spends his time bitter and resentful and unable to move on. We are that grieving fella sat stewing on the past. And who can blame us? The last decade has been crap.

We all suffer from chronic 'Here-we-go-again-itis' which results from years of being kicked in the teeth. We all feel like the club owes us for all this.

However, I feel we have to snap out of this nostalgia induced state of self pity that turns into resentment on matchdays when things aren't going so well. We need to ask ourselves this question, "Is the disillusionment I feel purely attributable to the current staff, or am I giving them a hard time for events that pre-date them?"

If the answer to that question is that we may be taking our longstanding frustrations (maybe due to people who are no longer at the club) out on the current staff, then you have to think how the current staff must feel. If I was them I'd think it was unfair to blame me.

Sure, the manager and players may not be the long term solution, but surely if we all wipe the slate clean, respect the chairman's decision to back the manager and give them all a fresh start and therefore the kind of support that the team used to get at S6, it can only have a positive effect on the pitch.

Support can only improve the team's performances, taking frustration out on the staff can only breed fear, damage morale and deepen the gloom at S6. The negativity has seen many good staff fail at S6, unable to cope with the pressure. Our new signings could well be heading the same way if we're not careful.

I don't have confidence in AI and a lot of the players to get us up, but I'm not going to make things worse by giving them stick. I'd love them to prove me wrong so I'll do what the guy who saved our club asks, and support them 100% and see what happens. In the past, we were right to berate overpaid vultures, but this manager and this team definitely give 100% so they deserve a break.

The fans always give 100% but we need to forget the past and look forward. We are a decent 3rd division club which has just been given a massive boost that could see us move forward. Now is the time for us to accept where we are, look forward and view any improvement from here as progression, not as catching back up - that way we might start to feel optimism again rather than less despair.

A great post I am sure if we show just that tiny bit more patience we will reap the rewards sooner rather than later. I am not a happy clapper but I have come to learn a couple of things over the years 1) How difficult football can be .................

and 2) How simple and easy football can be.

UTO WTID

[Guest clipper6728]

I strongly feel that there has been a negative atmosphere around the club for the past few years that is holding the club back. It lingers like a mist of gloom that casts a shadow over the club and sucks the enthusiasm out of the fans and subsequently the staff. It makes Hillsborough feel like a place of failure, depair and resignation.

As a fanbase, we are like the guy who lost it all and can't come to terms with it and now spends his time bitter and resentful and unable to move on. We are that grieving fella sat stewing on the past. And who can blame us? The last decade has been crap.

We all suffer from chronic 'Here-we-go-again-itis' which results from years of being kicked in the teeth. We all feel like the club owes us for all this.

However, I feel we have to snap out of this nostalgia induced state of self pity that turns into resentment on matchdays when things aren't going so well. We need to ask ourselves this question, "Is the disillusionment I feel purely attributable to the current staff, or am I giving them a hard time for events that pre-date them?"

If the answer to that question is that we may be taking our longstanding frustrations (maybe due to people who are no longer at the club) out on the current staff, then you have to think how the current staff must feel. If I was them I'd think it was unfair to blame me.

Sure, the manager and players may not be the long term solution, but surely if we all wipe the slate clean, respect the chairman's decision to back the manager and give them all a fresh start and therefore the kind of support that the team used to get at S6, it can only have a positive effect on the pitch.

Support can only improve the team's performances, taking frustration out on the staff can only breed fear, damage morale and deepen the gloom at S6. The negativity has seen many good staff fail at S6, unable to cope with the pressure. Our new signings could well be heading the same way if we're not careful.

I don't have confidence in AI and a lot of the players to get us up, but I'm not going to make things worse by giving them stick. I'd love them to prove me wrong so I'll do what the guy who saved our club asks, and support them 100% and see what happens. In the past, we were right to berate overpaid vultures, but this manager and this team definitely give 100% so they deserve a break.

The fans always give 100% but we need to forget the past and look forward. We are a decent 3rd division club which has just been given a massive boost that could see us move forward. Now is the time for us to accept where we are, look forward and view any improvement from here as progression, not as catching back up - that way we might start to feel optimism again rather than less despair.

[Guest clipper6728]

Never responded to a posting before , but I must to this one

As a long time fan 45 years , seen many up,s and down,s the above statement is by far one of the best I have read

[Lord Nilsson]

A negative atmosphere makes it really difficult for the current staff to turn things round so those that are unwilling to cut a little slack are effectively strangling the current staff's chances of proving them wrong which seems a bit harsh. The poor performance on the pitch undoubtedly affects attendances but there are fans who don't attend the games because of the awful, intimidating atmosphere. This is a sad state of affairs.

Would you like the current staff to prove you wrong? If so, give them a chance to. The current negativity and bitterness makes them dead men walking in my view.

Or are people more interested in seeing AI leave at all costs and at the potential expense of results? We just seem to be stuck in a cycle of blame, bitterness and despair which has to be broken otherwise we are going nowhere.

[pgmetcalf]

The sooner we get shot the better. We will see a vast improvement in the players once he has left.

[Guest bartos]

Really?

Interesting.

[quote name=SiJ' date='28 January 2011 - 12:26 AM'

timestamp='1296170762' post='2871787]

That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Ok lads go back read my posts, but this time properly and forgetting about your argument & viewpoint that you so forcefully try to get across all the time whilst you do.

You'll see that I stated we are (well most) all guilty of it and I include myself in that. I get very frustrated sometimes, with refs, opponents, our own players and of course AI.

Some of it through poor decisions and other times I get sucked into the same kinda stuff that sweeps through our ground. We'd be stupid to think the poo poo we've had for the last 10-15 years doesn't play a part, it's created this negative culture that won't be easy to break but the more of us that accept and recognise its a problem the easier it will be

Time for reflection, it's great give it a try

[pgmetcalf]

Support can only improve the team's performances, taking frustration out on the staff can only breed fear, damage morale and deepen the gloom at S6.

Support can only improve the team's performances? What, you mean like it has over the last few years? I'm still watching the same old crap we put up with each week for the last 10 or so years. That's dedication for you, but have the performances improved over that time? Have they flipping hellas like. The only way we're going to see decent football is to stop taking the cheap option and get a good manager that knows what he's doing and has the ability to teach people how to play football.

[pgmetcalf]

@djmortimer @sij

Get a grip guys. Just sick of everyone calling AI a clueless c*nt and whatever else they can come up with. Call him clueless, call him wrong, criticize his team choice, do whatever but don't treat him like a piece of turd. He's worked his socks off for this club, it's just that he just hasn't been any good.

So when is he going to admit he can't do the job or do we have to continually tell him?

[jonnyowl]

I don't want to get into arguments with people but there are a couple of points I'd like to make.

I'm not wiping the slate clean and forgetting about this season because it has been a poor and embarrassing at times.

I've not seen anything on the pitch to show that we are moving in the right direction.

Irvine's style of football means we will never achieve anything, teams that are successful play to their strengths and impose themselves on the opposition, we never do this.

Just because I want a new manager doesn't mean I don't support the team or I wouldn't have renewed my season ticket!

[Bluesteel]

I dont think its about being an "apologist" for Irvine, but as fans we do need to recognise our role and the impact we have upon the general feeling of tension within the club.

Even before the knives were fully out on Irvine and the season was looking a bit more promising as supporters we are a harsh bunch and I think that contributes to our problems.

I think in order to get the supporters back on side though we need a different style of football.

[trevdi9]

Easy answer ,win the games ,animossity to Irvine finished ,keep losing by playing it his way and you get the argument ,happy clapping changes nothing, the CHANGES have to come from Irvine , he is the one who put us here , AND IF HE IS SO GOOD AT MANAGEMENT ,THEN HE VIA THE TEAM SHOULD PUT US BACK WHERE WE BELONG ,Now to all the people living in the land of make believe ,which way Are we going now ,HOW MANY GAMES SINCE OUR SAVIOR CAME HAVE WE LOST ,in fact what has Irvine done to respond to his relegation of our team ,the answer is in one word a big fat nothing ,no matter about the have faith ,believe, it's not his team,or they need time to gell excuses, We have underachieved for nearly a year ,half of it with his players in

And we still struggle ,You can put as many excuses on it as you want ,makes no odds ,The answer gentlemen is in results ,and so far they are none existant,

[anglers owl]

This may be on another post, if so apologies, but just heard Weaver on the radio saying that they dont over-do the preperation when it comes to the opposition, to my mind this just endorses the fact that what the fans are saying, be it on here or elsewhere is feeding through to the players.

If this is so then the OP is spot on and we need to get behind the lads in everyway possible and kick the negative vibes into touch, lets get some possitivity back into the club, back MM and give him the oppertunity to steer the club his own way and not having to worry about appeasing the clamour of the fans at every set back,

were not stupid and can all see whats going wrong at the moment but lets give him a chance to sort it as im sure he will.

[trevdi9]

If by some chance he Rectify's the situation ,i will hold my hands up ,but untill then dream on ,

BY THE WAY THIS ISN,T ABOUT MM OR THE TEAM ,it is purely and simply about Irvine

[jonnyowl]

This may be on another post, if so apologies, but just heard Weaver on the radio saying that they dont over-do the preperation when it comes to the opposition, to my mind this just endorses the fact that what the fans are saying, be it on here or elsewhere is feeding through to the players.

If this is so then the OP is spot on and we need to get behind the lads in everyway possible and kick the negative vibes into touch, lets get some possitivity back into the club, back MM and give him the oppertunity to steer the club his own way and not having to worry about appeasing the clamour of the fans at every set back,

were not stupid and can all see whats going wrong at the moment but lets give him a chance to sort it as im sure he will.

I don't think its a preperation problem. If Irvine watches DVD's and picks up weaknesses of the oppsositions that's fine, but we never exploit them! We need to impose a high tempo attacking style to be successul. This is what all good teams do!

[Sinner]

If you want the slate wiped clean, then it's got to be a two way thing. If AI wants to even have a chance of getting the fans back on side it would need him to accept that he's got it wrong for much of this season and come out and admit it and show us he's working hard to change the way we play, rather than just working hard but doing the same as before.

Whilst we can all see it's going very wrong and the reason's why, there doesn't seem to be a glimmer of hope that he sees it the same as we do. If I thought for a minute that he would try to change things round and actually get at teams I could forgive the odd defeat, but I think that when we're getting on his back he just thinks we're all wrong and that his way is the only way.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember him ever saying he'll have a look at the system we're playing and if there's anything there that can change. What I have heard from him is the usual drivel that we're missing chances or players are making mistakes and he follows this up with a comment that they will work very hard in training and expect a reaction in the next game

What I am sure of is that some birght spark once defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Does it really take Einstein to see that AI's just not working for us.