Dark$ide Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Just had a spare half hour this afternoon and decided to have a look at how our goals were conceded. penalty aside there were ALL a direct result of Alan Irvines coaching IMHO. All the players were zonal defending on the crosses. I.e. Stood in a line of four defending the area and not the player. This is how they are being coached to defend corners and set pieces, as the other method is pick up your man, keep ball side of him and deal with the situation. Much Much simpler, but it keeps coaches under used due to it's ease of implementation........ Irvine can say the players wern't doing their jobs. But they were, they were doing exactly as they had been coached. Zonal defending is a crap system, doesn't work, and over complicates things. Zonal systems also take away individual responsibilities from players, normally man to man marking is simple and everyone is aware of what their doing. No confusion either, of whom is picking whom up, which was a result of two of ose set piece goals. Alan, it's your tactics and your systems that don't work. time to go. But then what do I know I don't have and coaching badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_Trustful Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Brian Laws had us doing zonal marking too, its a poo poo system I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Zonal marking or not (which i'm not a huge fan of tbh) the players cannot be completey exonerated for that schoolboy defending - and if we are zonal then we don't need 4 players marking each other centrally while their player stands at the back post to nod the ball in unnopposed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Alba Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Zonal marking is always something I imagine would be necessary against Barcelona in some sort of esoteric tactical battle or summat. A pub team could mark Leyton Orient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The players deserve some flak too, certainly. They crumble so easily at times. We need leaders on the pitch as well as a new manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arobert Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Benitez was well-known for his commitment to zonal marking. Now what did happen to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swfc boothy Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 the thing is about zonal is the space is not going to score so is not the danger its the players that need marking not the fu*king space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bauer Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Benitez was well-known for his commitment to zonal marking. Now what did happen to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swfc boothy Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 zonal marking is a load of rubbish its players that are the danger so why mark space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Sturrock Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Benitez was well-known for his commitment to zonal marking. Now what did happen to him? Pepe Reina won the award for most clean sheets 3 years running standing behind a zonal marking system. The system is fine when you've got defenders of a quality to deal with it. We've got League 1 defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgmetcalf Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Just had a spare half hour this afternoon and decided to have a look at how our goals were conceded. penalty aside there were ALL a direct result of Alan Irvines coaching IMHO. All the players were zonal defending on the crosses. I.e. Stood in a line of four defending the area and not the player. This is how they are being coached to defend corners and set pieces, as the other method is pick up your man, keep ball side of him and deal with the situation. Much Much simpler, but it keeps coaches under used due to it's ease of implementation........ Irvine can say the players wern't doing their jobs. But they were, they were doing exactly as they had been coached. Zonal defending is a crap system, doesn't work, and over complicates things. Zonal systems also take away individual responsibilities from players, normally man to man marking is simple and everyone is aware of what their doing. No confusion either, of whom is picking whom up, which was a result of two of ose set piece goals. Alan, it's your tactics and your systems that don't work. time to go. But then what do I know I don't have and coaching badges. Have to disagree entirely, they were all the fault of his lack of coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oliver666 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Zonal marking or not (which i'm not a huge fan of tbh) the players cannot be completey exonerated for that schoolboy defending - and if we are zonal then we don't need 4 players marking each other centrally while their player stands at the back post to nod the ball in unnopposed This is the first post I have read since the defeat yesterday when someone raises a valid point regarding the players. The players have to take a certain amount of responsibility over the results this season. Their decision making at times as been woeful and as contributed to some of the poor results as much as AI's tactics. I wonder how long it will be before some other players get the same treatment as Purse did and what AI might be getting on Tuesday night if he is still here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest owls_4_life Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think the players have to take some of the slack certainly. My question is that would they be performing so poorly if it wasn't for AI's instructions and tactics? In the Nicky Weaver interview on player he says that 'they receive a lot of information before the game about the opposition and the preparation is good'. If this is the case then why do we look so poorly prepared when they cross the white line? Are the players being given conflicting or confusing instructions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starrydave Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Zonal marking with new cb partnership was suicidal imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madowl47 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Zonal marking so high up the pitch leaving a huge gap for Orient to exploit. Which they did THREE times. Looked to me after watchin the goals that even the players couldn't believe what they had been asked to do. IRVINE HAS NO CLUE - DEFENCE MIDFIELD ATTACK There is no proper coaching at the club - That was Sunday League defending set up ............. no thats wrong you wouldn't dare defend like that in the park. ABSOLUTELY flippingRIDICULOUS MANAGEMENT AND COACHING IRVINE................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomTownOwls Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) It is not true to simply say zonal marking doesn't work. Under Wilkinson we were fantastic at defending set pieces using zonal marking. The stats showed that Liverpool conceded the least goals from corners when they used zonal marking. Mourinho also uses it. To use zonal marking you must have players who are strong in the air and aggressively attack it. Furthermore you have to be organised. Wednesday clearly didn't manage some or all of the above. Edited January 23, 2011 by BoomTownOwls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
web_owls Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) I think the players have to take some of the slack certainly. My question is that would they be performing so poorly if it wasn't for AI's instructions and tactics? In the Nicky Weaver interview on player he says that 'they receive a lot of information before the game about the opposition and the preparation is good'. If this is the case then why do we look so poorly prepared when they cross the white line? Are the players being given conflicting or confusing instructions? If it is the case and you knew about it would you vary your tactics against us? Knowing that the players appear to have very little ability or allowed to use their own intuition on how to combat such changes. Like I have been saying all season and most of the last one. AI is far too proactive and not reactive enough. Forgot to add there is nothing wrong with preparing for a match but I think AI concentrates on it far too much. It sets up to play and that is how we are going to play for 75 minutes, then he will change it, barring injuries. Edited January 23, 2011 by web_owls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The 1st was very harsh. Didn't look a pen to me, and Weaver lost his footing it was taken. The 2nd, 2 players (can't make out who they are) stood marking the same man and left Kane to do as he pleased. The 3rd was a good delivery, maybe Réda should've done better. The 4th, good delivery but direct result of really bad marking again. For those who were there, did Weaver seem to be trying to organise his defence? Not blaming him for a second, just wondering. How did Beevers play overall? Réda had a mare from those highlights. What a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think the players have to take some of the slack certainly. My question is that would they be performing so poorly if it wasn't for AI's instructions and tactics? In the Nicky Weaver interview on player he says that 'they receive a lot of information before the game about the opposition and the preparation is good'. If this is the case then why do we look so poorly prepared when they cross the white line? Are the players being given conflicting or confusing instructions? It's very easy to confuse players - not because they are thick but because football is a game of millions of variables and so simple intsructions - especially just before a game - are likely to yield better results I don't think i have ever seen 3 goals scored from so similar positions and deliveries - while the defenders looked SO clueless - they actually looked like they didn't know what to do as the ball came across - those players are not that bad and while their instructions may not be the best (i dunno what is said but they aren't being instructed to stand and look at the ball) the defenders are certainly of a calibre that they know they have to attack the ball when it is in a certain area - so why were FOUR of them stood within a 5 yard line in the centre of the goal yet nobody attacked the ball? Where was the threat coming from? What's the point of zoning the middle of the goal if the threat is at the back post and nobody is taking that role? Or is it that the on-pitch leadership and organisation was totally lacking? There are problems right through our team that simple - and i mean simple - coaching instruction and organisation can eliminate quickly and effectively but we too often look like a car crash - this is the sort of thing that is food and drink to a "highly rated coach" Simple instruction can be so effective - we look to be the victims of over analysis and stifled by over instruction - it would improve our game immediately if the instruction in the next game amounted to nothing more forensic than "go out there and play lads - leave it all on the pitch and most of all enjoy yourself" No orders - no instruction - no confusion - just put some fun and joy back in to the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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