DJMortimer Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Absolute, utter tosh! We won five out of the first seven games that Irvine was in charge. And then you say there was no chance of scraping together another two or three wins during the course of the season to keep us up? We were relegated by two points weren't we? So this guy reckons Irvine got so close to 100% out of his squad that it was impossible for him to squeeze those points out of 23 games!? Again I'm reminded of the two points Irvine decided not to go after at Cardiff in the punultimate game so he could settle for a draw that would have made absolutely no difference to the situation in the showdown against Palace. And it shouldn't be forgotten that only a last ditch clearance by a West Brom defender prevented the last game being meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 We were relegated by two points weren't we? So this guy reckons Irvine got so close to 100% out of his squad that it was impossible for him to squeeze those points out of 23 games!? Again I'm reminded of the two points Irvine decided not to go after at Cardiff in the punultimate game so he could settle for a draw that would have made absolutely no difference to the situation in the showdown against Palace. And it shouldn't be forgotten that only a last ditch clearance by a West Brom defender prevented the last game being meaningless. On the flip side, those two points should have been retained in the home draw with Barnsley, when we arguably should have killed the game off... @asteener, i totally understand your point, i just wonder IF we had a stronger, more stable defence, would Irvine have gone more attack minded? it was pretty obvious after a few games that the back four was as fragile as ever, and too many costly mistakes were being made to go all out attack. The service the strikers get is frankly atrocious. we could sign any striker and i think they would struggle to score. Irvines got his second chance, and he probably deserves it. If he still cant turn it around, theres nowhere else to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ak15 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's just ridiculous. Of course it's true he inherited a lousy situation, but to basically absolve him of blame when he was in charge for exactly half of the season is utterly bewildering. He should get some blame but let's not forget what dire straits the club was in, as I said, I think most managers would have struggled to keep us in the division that year (the old board of directors and the pathetic individual performances by senior players that season should shoulder most of the blame). This season is a different story of course, different division and a different squad but the performances continue to be equally as dire (even when we are winning) and if Irvine fails to get us promoted this season, then he should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 On the flip side, those two points should have been retained in the home draw with Barnsley, when we arguably should have killed the game off... I really don't see what on Earth that has to do with Irvine's approach, tactics and mindset and why he was hoping to defend a completely worthless point. He should get some blame... That's all we're saying. Of course, Irvine was actually in charge for more games in 2009/10 than Laws was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Irvine had a pretty good chance of keeping us up if memory serves me correctly. There was this game you see. Played on the BBC they did. Against some team from South London, a winner takes all type scenario. Crystal Palace (-10 pts) I believe was the team. We fvcked it. Worked out ok though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GANGST3R Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Here's a theory could MM be pulling all the strings behind closed doors with his new manager in waiting like say a sven goran eriksson once they get the players they target then he puts the final piece off the jig saw together,he sacks AI then appoints SGE and then we start the climb to the top of the summit.[PREMIER LEAGUE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I really don't see what on Earth that has to do with Irvine's approach, tactics and mindset and why he was hoping to defend a completely worthless point. That's all we're saying. Of course, Irvine was actually in charge for more games in 2009/10 than Laws was. If he doesn't win something like four games from the next six he'll be out I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I don't blame Irvine for last season's relegation for a few reasons: 1) Some players from last season weren't good enough to put on the shirt and that is the fault of the the old board of directors, who allowed the club to get in to such a financial mess that Wednesday had to resort to signing the likes of O'Connor as a replacement for Whelan, Purse as a replacement for Wood etc. 2) Some players from last season were not determined enough to fight their way out of relegation (Johnson, Esajas, Tudgay, Clarke, Soares); the club had too many mercenaries on its books because Wednesday were not in a financial position to sign a better class of player, again the fault of the old B.O.D. 3) Some of the players Irvine inherited were either low on confidence or injured and couldn't get back to their best when it counted (Buxton, Spurr, Potter, Simek, Miller). 4) Some were just an awful combination of the above (Jeffers), again that's mainly because the B.O.D. had run the club so badly for so many years and I think most managers would have struggled to keep us in the division that year. However, things have changed dramatically at the club since then though; stability in the boardroom, a clean slate financially and Irvine will has the chance to finalise a squad (possibly the best in the division) that can deliver promotion. Irvine has been given ample time and resources now and I don't want to hear any more excuses, the performances and results need to pick up soon or else he will, rightfully, be on borrowed time. We won 2 of the last 16 games, 3 would have saved us. We should have managed that even with the players we had last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Here's a theory could MM be pulling all the strings behind closed doors with his new manager in waiting like say a sven goran eriksson once they get the players they target then he puts the final piece off the jig saw together,he sacks AI then appoints SGE and then we start the climb to the top of the summit.[PREMIER LEAGUE] Why would Sven move from Leicester to Wednesday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Irvine had a pretty good chance of keeping us up if memory serves me correctly. There was this game you see. Played on the BBC they did. Against some team from South London, a winner takes all type scenario. Crystal Palace (-10 pts) I believe was the team. We fvcked it. Worked out ok though Remember the tactical genius of substituting our stupid fat lump of a striker with the pedestrian central midfielder? As the game wound down and we were desperate for a goal, our best striker was out on the left wing, and the man who should have been there, the only one capable of providing something of a spark (albeit not often enough) being lost in the scrum in the middle watching the ball sailing backwards and forwards over his head. Edited January 6, 2011 by DJMortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ak15 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's all we're saying. Of course, Irvine was actually in charge for more games in 2009/10 than Laws was. Same set of players were poo poo under Laws. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handball_!! Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 While people have jumped all over our defence for not being good enough, look at the scores in our defeats and it's notable how often they feature us scoring one goal or less : 0-1 v Brentford 0-1 v Carlisle 2-3 v Plymouth 0-1 v Southampton 0-1 v Charlton 0-2 v Huddersfield 1-2 v Swindon 1-5 v Exeter 0-1 v Huddersfield classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GANGST3R Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why would Sven move from Leicester to Wednesday? Who got him to leicester was it MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Same set of players were poo poo under Laws. Coincidence? But it was more complicated than that wasn't it? Starting towards the end of 2008/9 that same squad (with few changes) was relentlessly consistently average, even into October of the next season... then something changed. But if the situation was so inevitably irretrievable how did we give the runaway league leaders such a tough game and then see Irvine win 5 of his first 7 games before the lousy form returned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I really don't see what on Earth that has to do with Irvine's approach, tactics and mindset and why he was hoping to defend a completely worthless point. Nothing. i never said it did. I was simply pointing out that Laws should have had us in a better position in the first place. irvine simply failed to improve the squad or the situation, which is the reason people were calling for Laws' head - they felt a change of manager would be enough to kickstart that team. I agree fully that Irvine should have kept us up. But he wasnt the only one to blame, arguably he wasnt the main culprit either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 But it was more complicated than that wasn't it? Starting towards the end of 2008/9 that same squad (with few changes) was relentlessly consistently average, even into October of the next season... then something changed. But if the situation was so inevitably irretrievable how did we give the runaway league leaders such a tough game and then see Irvine win 5 of his first 7 games before the lousy form returned? yup, its a good question. Id say Wood/Tudgay/Grant transfer rumblings probably didnt help, especially with Purse and co arriving in for more money. They probably rocked the boat, with that coupled with the poisonous atmosphere coming from the boardroom probably triggered the collapse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I agree fully that Irvine should have kept us up. But he wasnt the only one to blame, arguably he wasnt the main culprit either.. Just as it would be stupid to absolve Irvine of blame, it would be equally so in Laws' case too. Personally though, I think both were undermined by events that may well have been outside their control. The precipitous decline in results can't be glibly written off as the consequences of a poor squad after how reasonably well it had performed for such a long period before October 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Who got him to leicester was it MM I imagine the mega wealthy Thai people might have played a part. Have you seen the players that Sven has been signed/linked with. Edited January 6, 2011 by SiJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He got a chance when he was appointed. He blew it. He got a chance when he signed 9 new players at the start of this season. He's pretty much blown it. Does he deserve another? 3rd time lucky? Maybe not, but he's going to get one, and probably rightly so. Its clear Irvine is going to be given the opportunity to plug the gaps in this squad that he couldn't afford to fill in the summer, and with some quality too. If there isn't an immediate and vast improvement then he has to take responsibility. This is a 3rd bite at the cherry here, which is two more chances than football managers usually get, and this time its with renewed backing. Anything other than promotion with this team and he will lose his job. And rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triplej2 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He got a chance when he was appointed. He blew it. He got a chance when he signed 9 new players at the start of this season. He's pretty much blown it. Does he deserve another? 3rd time lucky? Maybe not, but he's going to get one, and probably rightly so. Its clear Irvine is going to be given the opportunity to plug the gaps in this squad that he couldn't afford to fill in the summer, and with some quality too. If there isn't an immediate and vast improvement then he has to take responsibility. This is a 3rd bite at the cherry here, which is two more chances than football managers usually get, and this time its with renewed backing. Anything other than promotion with this team and he will lose his job. And rightly so. Let's be honest, we're just gonna have to ride this sh*t out until we get a proper manager in. The sad truth is that it will mean another year in this division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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