Irvine Out

[BRADDAZ]

But the players that Irvine inherited are much the same as last year, are they not? The same set of players comfortably managed an upper mid table position last year.

The exceptions being Purse, who has arguably been the most consistent player under Irvine, Miller who in his very limited time on the field played well under Irvine and Soares who Irvine apparently rates. Irvine has had the best part of half a season to get things right and he still appears to be unsure of his best formation or team let alone motivating them.

The only other thing that could have changed is the CCC is significanty better than last season. I don't believe that to be the case. It was poo last year and much the same this year.

Even given their crass mediocrity, the present squad is capable of a mid table position if they could be arsed. I don't think it is player ability that is the problem, more player attitude! That is Irvine's job to rectify.

How can Irvine rectify player attitudes? Seriously?

A footballer either wants to win a football match or doesn't. He either wants to win that 50/50 challenge or doesn't.

How can a football manager change the attitude?

He can't drop players, because our squad is lacking so much depth that he can't change many players. He can't buy and sell players, for starters we have no money to bring them in. Secondly, who would want to take players off our hands, who have such bad attitudes. And thirdly, we operate in a transfer window where in January it's very difficult to do business in (he also started very well when taking over in Jan and probably didn't feel the need to do much business).

It's the half arsed players who are largely to blame. They showed last year that they can finish mid table, so what's changed? It can only be the attitude.

Irvine can't change player attitudes. Like i said, you either want to win or don't.

This set obviously don't.

[Glaser]

Irvine can't change player attitudes. Like i said, you either want to win or don't.

Man management ?

Surely this facet has a monumental affect on your ability as a football manager ?

[gurujuan]

Absolutely clueless and must go, his football next season will render us unwatchable

[DJMortimer]

Irvine can't change player attitudes. Like i said, you either want to win or don't.

This set obviously don't.

Has he explored all possible avenues in that regard?

As certain players idly breezed their way through games confident that it would not affect whether they were picked ot not next week, what has he done? Could/should he have tried players willing to put a shift in even if they aren't especially talented? McAllister? Hinds? Modest even?

[BRADDAZ]

Man management ?

Surely this facet has a monumental affect on your ability as a football manager ?

If a professional footballer needs motivating into wanting to win a game then they really should retire and take up a different profession.

IMO - a manager should not need to motivate players into giving full commitment and effort for 90 minutes. It's the least a player should give. This shower doesn't.

I for one can't blame Irvine for players efforts and attitudes. Like i said, they either want to win or don't.

[BIG D]

Can we please stop with this rampant nonsense that Irvine is all but completely helpless in all this?

Take a look at this thread and explain how other managers placed in very similar circumstances have managed to do so much better. We're not talking about the dim and distant past, managers handled bundles of cash to spend or inheriting great players. Doesn't it say anything to you that I can muster up 4 such examples from our own club in just the last decade who can point to better results? Stop falling back on a convenient excuse without thinking any deeper than that. Of course our players are the main problem (despite proving capable last season) but to suggest the boss is powerless is crap, especially when he insists on sticking by the same methods and players who have been so woeful and worst of all comfortable.

http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=127307

Better results or just the fact that we stayed up at the end of the season?

I don't think any of those mentioned walked into a situation as poor as the one that Irvine did (3 points from 11 games and shipping goals for fun)

Edited April 25, 2010 by BIG D

[Wednesday-Wonderland]

Look at our squad, he has no options. Even if he thinks they're all poo he can't do anything about it.

We're Wednesdayites, do we not give people a chance to show what they can do any more? Anyone wanting AI to leave before he's had the chance to build his own team has a chronic lack of intelligence and/or is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[BRADDAZ]

Has he explored all possible avenues in that regard?

As certain players idly breezed their way through games confident that it would not affect whether they were picked ot not next week, what has he done? Could/should he have tried players willing to put a shift in even if they aren't especially talented? McAllister? Hinds? Modest even?

As i said in my first post on page four.

I don't agree with some of what Irvine as done. Personally, i think McAllistar and Gray should have played more over the past couple of months. But the squad on the whole isn't good enough, we could have maybe put some players in such as Modest, Boden, Esajas etc. but we would have still got relegated because they're simply not good enough for this level.

Unfortunately, we have players who can play at this level (as proved last season) not trying. Then we have a squad underneath the first eleven (who may or may not try) that are just simply not good enough.

Irvine can't change personnel in his squad. His hands are tied until the summer. The attitudes in the players changed when Laws was in charge. He lost the dressing room and he couldn't get it back, so he lost his job. Irvine came in (had a good start) then the players attitude went back to what it was under Laws (IMO).

Like i said, you can't change player attitudes. You want to win or don't. Unfortunately, for us the players who can compete at this level don't want to win, they would rather have a relegation their CV. But hey ho, they'll still get a nice pay packet at the end of the month.

[Guest carlg]

I'd save your breath mate there's just no educating some people.

I don't think even the best manager in the world could have done better with Mr nice guy's sorry shower of sh**e, its been plainly obvious for month's now that they just don't give a damn about us!!

Ditto.

[Guest Distraught!]

How can Irvine rectify player attitudes? Seriously?

A footballer either wants to win a football match or doesn't. He either wants to win that 50/50 challenge or doesn't.

How can a football manager change the attitude?

He can't drop players, because our squad is lacking so much depth that he can't change many players. He can't buy and sell players, for starters we have no money to bring them in. Secondly, who would want to take players off our hands, who have such bad attitudes. And thirdly, we operate in a transfer window where in January it's very difficult to do business in (he also started very well when taking over in Jan and probably didn't feel the need to do much business).

It's the half arsed players who are largely to blame. They showed last year that they can finish mid table, so what's changed? It can only be the attitude.

Irvine can't change player attitudes. Like i said, you either want to win or don't.

This set obviously don't.

I think that some managers can alter players' attitudes - in fact I know so! Kevin Keegan was muted as a possible replacement for Irvine. I have no idea how realistic that was but I can bet if he were manager the attitude of the whole team would be different and we would not be in this position. Irvine had the perfect start winning 5 out of 7, most very luckily admittedly but he should have been able to move on from a base like that. I am not saying he should be replaced but I do not and will not accept this theory that he is blameless because of what he inherited. He knew what he was taking on and accepted it readily. It is his job to make the best with what he has got. I believe it to be no great shakes as a team but there is no way, in my book, we should be looking down the throat of League One.

[Guest OwlertonG]

Passionless, dour, Scottish bore-bag.

hasnt produced, and i can see why preston were in the mix, but.... we cant judge him with this crop of player

[DJMortimer]

Better results or just the fact that we stayed up at the end of the season?

I don't think any of those mentioned walked into a situation as poor as the one that Irvine did (3 points from 11 games and shipping goals for fun)

"Nothing to see here" eh Officer Barbrady?

Peter Shreeves took over a team that set a club record with 8 consecutive league defeats a few months before. He arrived on the back of 5 straight defeats and 15 goals conceded and we were rock bottom. Paul Jewell's final team selection included Steve Harkness, Ian Hendon, Ashley Westwood, Con Blatsis, Aaron Lescott, Marlon Beresford and Gilles de Bilde. We won 6 of the next 8 games.

Yorath took over a team that were next to bottom with 1 win in the last 13 games and having conceded 27 goals in that spell. Some of the stars he inherited were Ian Hendon, Ashley Westwood, Tony Crane, and Paul McLaren.

Paul Sturrock was given the job after a run of 5 wins in 18 games (and one of those was a cup game against Walsall). The luminaries he took over included Guy Branston, Ross Greenwood, Paul Smith, Kim Olsen, Ola Tidman, Lee Peacock and Chris Carr.

When Sturrock was sacked we had won just 2 of 13 games, kept just 2 clean sheets, been shut ourselves 6 times, and had been hammered at home by Wrexham in the Carling Cup. To be fair, Laws didn't take over until Sean McAuley had guided us to 3 wins out of 4 as caretaker manager.

[Guest thetruthisoutthere]

Passionless, dour, Scottish bore-bag.

you sir are a c0ck, and i don't mean mr Irvin

[BIG D]

Oh well - that kept you busy for 20 minutes and saved me having to do it

So did any walk into a worse situation (3 points in 11 games?)

Edited April 25, 2010 by BIG D

[BRADDAZ]

I think that some managers can alter players' attitudes - in fact I know so! Kevin Keegan was muted as a possible replacement for Irvine. I have no idea how realistic that was but I can bet if he were manager the attitude of the whole team would be different and we would not be in this position. Irvine had the perfect start winning 5 out of 7, most very luckily admittedly but he should have been able to move on from a base like that. I am not saying he should be replaced but I do not and will not accept this theory that he is blameless because of what he inherited. He knew what he was taking on and accepted it readily. It is his job to make the best with what he has got. I believe it to be no great shakes as a team but there is no way, in my book, we should be looking down the throat of League One.

For starters... forget Keegan - Absolute non-starter from day one. I'd have loved it if he was manager, but it was never going to happen in a MILLION years.

Anyways...

I've said all i want on player attitudes in the posts above and i've also said Irvine HAS made errors.

However, i think Wednesday fans should cut the guy a little slack. Irvine can have a good clear out in the summer, he can bring in players who want to play under him and play for Sheffield Wednesday. Then let's judge the guy. It's unfair to judge him when on the whole he's inherited a squad of players put together by a previous manager, who was sacked from the club when we was in the relegation zone (with his own set of players).

[gurujuan]

Irvine was a bad appointment by our chairman and both should go in my opinion

[BIG D]

Irvine was a bad appointment by our chairman and both should go in my opinion

Thanks for that

to be replaced by who? Especially the Chairman

[Guest carlg]

AI must have been half expecting a backlash should we fail, but for pities sake, people ... he's a damn fine manager, a good man for us in the long term.

Let him rebuild the squad, with or without money.

There were no better candidates out there who'd take on the poisoned chalice of SWFC.

We were very fortunate to get him.

Our squad is a shambles - to quote once again: "You Can't Polish a Turd"

If bloody BL had remained in charge we'd have been losing 3-4 nil or 1, week in week out. And been rock bottom long by now - and an even bigger laughing stock.

[smhouston]

Passionless, dour, Scottish bore-bag.

Have to agree i'm afraid.

So negative, doesn't seem to be any better than Laws, doesn't offer us anything Brian didn't.

Complete clear out needed, manager and staff included.

Jeez, take a chill pill. Never heard so many posters post such rubbish, owlstalk just gets worse and worse!

If Irvine had gone gung-ho today we probably would have got battered 5-0, and no doubt you still would have complained due to us being rubbish in defence instead!

I watched it on live steam, and tbh I thought we played better than we have been doing. We looked more composed on the ball, passing it around and trying to break through, just like the start of the season with Laws. It's just the end product we were missing. Even still, we did manage 2 score 2 goals from open play, both were good crosses as well. It's just a shame defensively we let ourselves down today to let them score twice straight after we scored! No doubt AI will be bloocking them for that though.

The fact is, not one of us expected a result against Cardiff (they are a damn god side remember and are in play-offs), but we certainly gave it a go.

Hopefully WBA will get at least a point at Palace then it's still in our hands. If it comes down to Palace game and the players don't put a performance in then it certainly shows what character they're made of and I doubt many will get a new club.

[BRADDAZ]

Irvine was a bad appointment by our chairman and both should go in my opinion

Aye Strafford out.

I much prefered the rudder-less ship we run a year or so ago.

Or maybe we could ask Uncle Dave back....

Come back Dave.... all is forgotten!!

Tail.