@owlstalk Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, parajack said: Another post about things i havnt said...... It's not a personal thing at all - it's about your posts and the tone of them You seem to be getting frustrated or angry that everyone has a perception of the stuff you post mate. I would suggest that's a result of the last year or so of you posting some really aggressively overoptimistic expectations of what can be achieved, should be achieved and your posts if things don't go Wednesday's way No point getting all upset about people's perception of you if the perception of you and your posts is a direct result of your posts? Just own it! If you feel you've been misrepresented then tell us why and what people have got wrong in their opinion of your posts 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Depends what you're basing that on? Squad? Circumstances? Context? Wage bill? Decent post mate,asking me to justfy my comments....perfectly reasonable .......... Squad is self explanatory,you can disagree if you like but we started the season with 7 Championship first team regulars who were part of our Championship squad,and of a higher standard that lower League players..... Wage bill, allowed us to offer Championship level contracts to retain players(prior to relegation) no wages cap applicable and also made us favourable to attract free's and out of contract players,loan signings,etc on more attractive terms than many other L1 sides... Circumstances? not sure what you refer to,but things like Covid 19,injurys,suspensions,or having to bring in free's and loan signings are the usual cut & thrust of playing in the lower Leagues,not unique to Wednesday... Context?.. Debate about how well we have done has varied,(its well documented) some compare to Wigan,Sunderland, etc etc....I have consistently said we should be doing at least 'as well' as the teams relegated with us......for much of the season we lagged.....Now we are comparing favourably as Rotherham have faltered,and WW for dipped....but we were outside a play off place for most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, parajack said: Circumstances? not sure what you refer to,but things like Covid 19,injurys,suspensions,or having to bring in free's and loan signings are the usual cut & thrust of playing in the lower Leagues,not unique to Wednesday... Wghat about the aspects that WERE though? Manager hospitalised and fighting for his life Our chairman rounding on the fans Embargoes Players not getting paid etc etc etc The issue I have with fans who are demanding we get promoted or it's a massive failure is that they ALL forget the circumstances, context and recent history of what's gone off at this football club and just say 'yeah but should still just get promoted' Doesn't sit with me that Same fans were saying Darren Moore was a bad manager getting us relegated when the facts of the matter were he was in hospital with Covid and pneumonia of the lungs fighting for his life only to get fans saying 'yeah but shouldn't have got us relegated' ffs It's an over inflated unrealistic and over entitled opinion in my humble opinion and why we have to endure meltdowns from those fans if we don't beat teams ten nil Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: It's not a personal thing at all - it's about your posts and the tone of them You seem to be getting frustrated or angry that everyone has a perception of the stuff you post mate. I would suggest that's a result of the last year or so of you posting some really aggressively overoptimistic expectations of what can be achieved, should be achieved and your posts if things don't go Wednesday's way No point getting all upset about people's perception of you if the perception of you and your posts is a direct result of your posts? Just own it! If you feel you've been misrepresented then tell us why and what people have got wrong in their opinion of your posts Think i have answered most of what you ask already,i enjoy debate and posting on here,I dont get upset or angry. For context i get upset when i see Genocide and mass graves in Ukraine......This is a forum I enjoy reading and posting in. Ime not sure why people imagine 'rage' or 'upset'...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Wghat about the aspects that WERE though? Manager hospitalised and fighting for his life Our chairman rounding on the fans Embargoes Players not getting paid etc etc etc The issue I have with fans who are demanding we get promoted or it's a massive failure is that they ALL forget the circumstances, context and recent history of what's gone off at this football club and just say 'yeah but should still just get promoted' Doesn't sit with me that It's an over inflated unrealistic and over entitled opinion in my humble opinion and why we have to endure meltdowns from those fans if we don't beat teams ten nil Only the embargo applied this season mate,player wages were sorted and many of the new players brought in were not impacted by what you document.Most applies to last season,which i agree can leave a 'hang over'. Do you not think yourself we could,and should have won many of those drawn games?....Would you have started the season playing it out'? lone striker? Drop Berahino after a hat trick? or picked NML to pair Gregory?...simple footballing disagreement on how we could have done/be at.. Other sides have points deductions and face similar?...Birmingham,Derby? Wigan,Reading this season...... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, parajack said: Think i have answered most of what you ask already,i enjoy debate and posting on here,I dont get upset or angry. For context i get upset when i see Genocide and mass graves in Ukraine......This is a forum I enjoy reading and posting in. Ime not sure why people imagine 'rage' or 'upset'...... Fair mate! I always see you as an angry poster who's always annoyed if we don't smash teams and aren't top of the league If that's not the case then I apologise for calling it wrong Either way - I like reading your posts even though I disagree with them - but that's what a forums for! 1 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Wghat about the aspects that WERE though? Manager hospitalised and fighting for his life Our chairman rounding on the fans Embargoes Players not getting paid etc etc etc The issue I have with fans who are demanding we get promoted or it's a massive failure is that they ALL forget the circumstances, context and recent history of what's gone off at this football club and just say 'yeah but should still just get promoted' Doesn't sit with me that Same fans were saying Darren Moore was a bad manager getting us relegated when the facts of the matter were he was in hospital with Covid and pneumonia of the lungs fighting for his life only to get fans saying 'yeah but shouldn't have got us relegated' ffs It's an over inflated unrealistic and over entitled opinion in my humble opinion and why we have to endure meltdowns from those fans if we don't beat teams ten nil There are some 'melt downs' on here......they are usually people spitting feathers at what i post....!! LOL i seem to remember getting it in the neck with you the only person agreeing GM was doing an OK job,in the circumstances... last Year when virtually the entire Forum wanted GM sacked....Except a couple of posters..... I never changed my view on Monk.....despite the sometimes rancid posts that flew around(still havnt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, parajack said: There are some 'melt downs' on here......they are usually people spitting feathers at what i post....!! LOL i seem to remember getting it in the neck with you the only person agreeing GM was doing an OK job,in the circumstances... last Year when virtually the entire Forum wanted GM sacked....Except a couple of posters..... I never changed my view on Monk.....despite the sometimes rancid posts that flew around(still havnt) The rancid posts and angrymad posts at the views that don't follow the consensus are a thing to treasure They're always really funny 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 Just now, @owlstalk said: Fair mate! I always see you as an angry poster who's always annoyed if we don't smash teams and aren't top of the league If that's not the case then I apologise for calling it wrong Either way - I like reading your posts even though I disagree with them - but that's what a forums for! Likewise,i think sometimes seeing a contrary view both can 'test' & reinforce your own(views) there are no right or wrong 'opinion's....As Lord Denning once said two reasonable people can look at the same piece of evidence,but come to a completely different conclusion.....Both REMAIN reasonable!! If i am convinced by someones debate,i am happy to change my view,and will say so...... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, parajack said: Likewise,i think sometimes seeing a contrary view both can 'test' & reinforce your own(views) there are no right or wrong 'opinion's....As Lord Denning once said two reasonable people can look at the same piece of evidence,but come to a completely different conclusion.....Both REMAIN reasonable!! If i am convinced by someones debate,i am happy to change my view,and will say so...... That's the way it should be mate All too often I'm finding people posting an opinion, getting challenged on it and then crying or running off instead of simply chatting it through By product of people living in little echo chambers I guess 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanBird Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: By product of people living in little echo chambers I guess I have to disagree with this one. Out of my circle of good friends, 75 % prefer it to follow the majority and only 25 % prefer to make decisions, take the lead or have a discussion. The percentate beyond males might be higher, but I guess that it's just a matter of your personality, if you rather want to have opinions and fight for them, of if you prefer to get on with your live and let others discuss and decide. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesapint Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 9 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Has also started to repair the relationship between club/players and the fans in a very positive way indeed Little things that he and the players have done this season have gone a long long way to a positive atmosphere Also - Chansiri giving him the space and time and letting Moore run things has paid off hugely Also - Chansiri giving him the space and time and letting Moore run things has paid off hugely This has largely gone unnoticed but in my view DC has also learned some important lessons and be club is reaping the benefits 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: That's the way it should be mate All too often I'm finding people posting an opinion, getting challenged on it and then crying or running off instead of simply chatting it through By product of people living in little echo chambers I guess Yep.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mercury Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 Said it lots of times - In Moore I trust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, parajack said: My critique of our manager started last year with my dislike of his tactics So there's no room to reflect as you want to be right on a football forum...that's some raison d'être congratulations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, GermanBird said: I have to disagree with this one. Out of my circle of good friends, 75 % prefer it to follow the majority and only 25 % prefer to make decisions, take the lead or have a discussion. The percentate beyond males might be higher, but I guess that it's just a matter of your personality, if you rather want to have opinions and fight for them, of if you prefer to get on with your live and let others discuss and decide. Isn't it? Interesting observation....but is that a Cultural thing?(I lived in Germany for 2 Years) My best friend in Germany(half German/English,Squaddie 'brat') was ONLY allowed to attend a social function of his Grandparents as a member of 'staff(waiting on'!! FFS)....He wasnt seen as having enough 'status' to be a Guest...True story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 Just now, daveyboy66 said: So there's no room to reflect as you want to be right on a football forum...that's some raison d'être congratulations There are NO right or wrong 'opinion's just different ways of looking at the same set of circumstances......lighten up.....IF i am convinced by someones debate and think they have apoint,i am happy to change my views. NOT doing so is equally my choice......& perfectly reasonable....as is your right to disagree...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack the Hat Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 10 hours ago, @owlstalk said: I would put forward the argument that this attitude is very naive and a reason why we get so many meltdowns after a game if we have only one one nil even though we got three points It's a self entitled unrealistic viewpoint in my opinion When we were relegated we had serious serious issues, and putting together a brand new squad at the last minute and trying to succeed in this league was always going to be a massive task. But some fans just disregard any obstacles, reasons, logic or understandable challenges and instead just say 'nahhh we should be automataically promoted because we're a massive club and our wage bill is highest' It's naive And a massive sense of unrealistic entitlement It's why we get fans confused why we didn't stay up in the Championship despite transfer embargos, fines, manager in hospital fighting for his life, players not getting paid etc And it's why we get meltdowns from the same small group of fans if we don't smash every team ten nil I think you’re opinions are dismissive. We shouldn’t walk the league because we are massive and have the biggest wage bill. We should have achieved automatics because we have the best squad. Either we have a genius manager who has done well with below mid table players or we are a good squad who have underachieved for a large part of the season - if so the manager is part to blame. It’s not which is right or wrong - which is subjective- it’s the ability to see both sides. I don’t think you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, parajack said: IF i am convinced by someones debate There's no debating over the last two months...the results speak for themselves...unless of course you have already judged the manager and team by his tactics last season...never mind there's always next season where you can pray to be right regardless of what happens...bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: There's no debating over the last two months...the results speak for themselves...unless of course you have already judged the manager and team by his tactics last season...never mind there's always next season where you can pray to be right regardless of what happens...bless SO......no ones view matters but your OWN......and YOU decide if the results are good enough? why didnt you say so earlier?......we have BOTH judged the manager and his tactics,and formed a view,its just a different conclusion..... Now you can patronise away all you want,but it doesnt make good reading,and dont imagine for one minute that i care ONE IOTA about your comments... You want to debate FINE .....but lose the attitude...ITS BORING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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