Westwood out for two weeks

[FreshOwl]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

 

It's not 'a few' though is it?

It's like you've seen his calamity and then just deleted it from your brain and are now trying to tell all of us that saw it that it didn't happen

 

 

It is a few, he’s hardly been here for a year! 
 

I recall a few games around this time last year where he was a bit dodgy, then that’s the last we saw of him until now 

 

So what other games am I missing? 
 

Happy to be corrected, but all I remember was a few dodgy games around Nov/Dec 2019 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

2 minutes ago, Hookowl said:

 

Before he was 'frozen out' as it were, he was dropped from the team because his form was bad. So if you would assume he's of a similar standard to what he was then you'd have to  assume his form is bad.

 

We've been through this many times, his form wasn't as bad as some try to make out. He conceded 9 goals in 9 games with Monk as manager.  

 

2 of those in the 2-2 home draw with Swansea he could be said to be at fault for, but he also made several world class saves in that game.

In other games for example Leeds at home and Blackburn away he also made many 'worldies' that I don't think the other 2 keepers would be capable of.

[Hookowl]

1 minute ago, FreshOwl said:

All footballers go through bad form. I think it’s fair to say that before then he had been pretty much exceptional for years, so we rule him out over a few poor performances? 

 

Of course all footballers go through bad form at some time or other, and yes he had been exceptional for years. That doesn't mean that as they get older they can still replicate the form they had when they were younger. Westwood has had fitness issues for a good while and as each year goes by that is liable to increase and in turn affect his form.

So to say that we could assume he's of a similar standard as he was even one year ago just isn't feasible. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, FreshOwl said:

It is a few, he’s hardly been here for a year!  

Out of the last two games - ALL of them have been horrific in one way or another

Before he got banished - It was turning into every single game that was horrific in one way or another

He's never once played a full season without getting some sort of mysterious injury - not one single season at the club - think about that for a second

 

Come on.... Just admit that he's no longer the Westwood you think he still is

 

It'll be better in the long run

The first step to solving your problem is admitting you have a problem

 

 

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

We've been through this many times, his form wasn't as bad as some try to make out. He conceded 9 goals in 9 games with Monk as manager.   

Proof if ever we needed it that Monk had turned it around and found the magic formula

 

[FreshOwl]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

Out of the last two games - ALL of them have been horrific in one way or another

Before he got banished - It was turning into every single game that was horrific in one way or another

He's never once played a full season without getting some sort of mysterious injury - not one single season at the club - think about that for a second

 

Come on.... Just admit that he's no longer the Westwood you think he still is

 

It'll be better in the long run

The first step to solving your problem is admitting you have a problem

 

 

Erm I already admitted that, but as I said we won’t get close to bringing in anyone better, and he’s still a very good keeper at this level 

 

And he’s still streets ahead of the other 2 

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

We've been through this many times, his form wasn't as bad as some try to make out. He conceded 9 goals in 9 games with Monk as manager.  

 

2 of those in the 2-2 home draw with Swansea he could be said to be at fault for, but he also made several world class saves in that game.

In other games for example Leeds at home and Blackburn away he also made many 'worldies' that I don't think the other 2 keepers would be capable of.

 

We drew to Leeds and lost to Blackburn

1 point out of a possible 6 with Westwood at his peak making 'Worldies'

[Hookowl]

1 minute ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

We've been through this many times, his form wasn't as bad as some try to make out. He conceded 9 goals in 9 games with Monk as manager.  

 

2 of those in the 2-2 home draw with Swansea he could be said to be at fault for, but he also made several world class saves in that game.

In other games for example Leeds at home and Blackburn away he also made many 'worldies' that I don't think the other 2 keepers would be capable of.

 

I was more replying to the comment "you would assume he's of a similar standard to what he was" and just pointing out that the standard a year ago wasn't as good as we'd previously come to expect from him.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, FreshOwl said:

  and he’s still a very good keeper at this level  

See this is where you make that claim but have no evidence to suggest that's true

 

 

[cowl]

1 minute ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

We've been through this many times, his form wasn't as bad as some try to make out. He conceded 9 goals in 9 games with Monk as manager.  

 

2 of those in the 2-2 home draw with Swansea he could be said to be at fault for, but he also made several world class saves in that game.

In other games for example Leeds at home and Blackburn away he also made many 'worldies' that I don't think the other 2 keepers would be capable of.

 

This is at the heart of the continued hope that Westwood can recover his form.

 

It might just come to nothing, but it's hardly illogical to first seek out true class where you last observed it (and in the absence of any immediate alternatives).

[FreshOwl]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

See this is where you make that claim but have no evidence to suggest that's true

 

 

So he’s not a very good keeper at this level???  my lord 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, FreshOwl said:

So he’s not a very good keeper at this level???  my lord 

 

 

Hang on - that's not what I said

I said you keep making claims about how he's 'still' a great keeper at this level

I'm saying you don't know that

The only evidence you have is:

 

1) The game where he made his comeback, patted the ball to their striker on the penalty spot, and then managed to 'dive' for the ball and amazingly travelled zero distance but just flopped down on the spot

 

2) The following game where he decided to go off injured after just ten minutes

 

3) Games from over a year ago???

You can't possibly state how he's 'still' a great keeper at this level with that kind of evidence to look at

 

It's just not possible to confidently make that claim

[FreshOwl]

6 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Hang on - that's not what I said

I said you keep making claims about how he's 'still' a great keeper at this level

I'm saying you don't know that

The only evidence you have is:

 

1) The game where he made his comeback, patted the ball to their striker on the penalty spot, and then managed to 'dive' for the ball and amazingly travelled zero distance but just flopped down on the spot

 

2) The following game where he decided to go off injured after just ten minutes

 

3) Games from over a year ago???

You can't possibly state how he's 'still' a great keeper at this level with that kind of evidence to look at

 

It's just not possible to confidently make that claim

I think it’s safe to assume that unless he’s had all the talent and ability injected out of him, that he’ll still be a good keeper at this level, no? 
 

Otherwise he’s gone from, in a short period of time, one the best keepers in the league, to not being good enough for the championship. Which just doesn’t seem possible? 
 

You’re right, there’s been no evidence to suggest he’s still one of the best, but there’s also been no evidence to suggest he is shot 

 

Either side of the coin there is no evidence.

 

Unless you want to draw attention to a few poor performances a year ago, and a huge 100 minutes of football this season. 
 

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how he does this season, as it’s clear he’ll start under Pulis 

Edited November 27, 2020 by FreshOwl

[@owlstalk]

Just now, FreshOwl said:

I think it’s safe to assume that unless he’s had all the talent and ability injected out of him, that he’ll still be a good keeper at this level, no?  

 

Well if he:

 

1) Could stay fit and not get 'injured' - (He can't)

2) Didn't keep dropping horrific blunders and costing us games (He can't)

3) Didn't have other issues causing him to get banished by three managers at both club and international level (He can't)

 

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

You’re right, there’s been no evidence to suggest he’s still one of the best, but there’s also been no evidence to suggest he is shot  

On the contrary

He's had two games now to show that he's not shot

In the first - he blundered, let a goal in, and cost us the game
In the second - he went off injured after ten minutes

 

 

 

[FreshOwl]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

Well if he:

 

1) Could stay fit and not get 'injured' - (He can't)

2) Didn't keep dropping horrific blunders and costing us games (He can't)

 

But you’re drawing your opinion from such a small amount of data. A few games last year rounded up into a whole opinion?  What about Westwood’s form from 2015-2019. Does that count for nothing after a few dodgy ones? 
 

He hasn’t played for the last year so neither of us can possibly know what he’ll be like this season. So we can only go on what we’ll see in-front of us over the coming months 

 

But you’re judging your opinion on him over a handful of games, I’m judging him on the entirety of his career  

[bobness]

4 hours ago, Errol Flashman said:

But worrabout Christmas?!?

 

That's when he will be indefinitely frozen out of the squad

[@owlstalk]

Just now, FreshOwl said:

 What about Westwood’s form from 2015-2019. 

Should we also start saying Rhodes is dynamite from the form HE had when he was banging goals in leff right and centre in the Championship?

Get 'Nando' back too?

 

'Hutch?'??

 

Come on now...

Let's stop being silly

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

 But you’re judging your opinion on him over a handful of games, I’m judging him on the entirety of his career  

Do you also do this with Jordan Rhodes?

 

#justasking

[FreshOwl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Should we also start saying Rhodes is dynamite from the form HE had when he was banging goals in leff right and centre in the Championship?

Get 'Nando' back too?

 

'Hutch?'??

 

Come on now...

Let's stop being silly

Rhodes has been awful for 4 years and that’s been evident every time he’s turned out in that period 

 

Westwood has had a poor 5-6 games in a 1 month period 

 

It’s not even a  comparable situation 

 

I think we’re getting lost in the detail here. I do think we will need better than Westwood moving forward, but right now with these 3 keepers, and our inability to attract anyone better, I’d stick with him for the season