Guest Grez Bez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Andrew6666 said: Coaching a winning side (under numerous managers). Managing a winning side. Basically, his job. Take sentiment away, nobody on here could state why he is still here? How many coaching sessions of his have you been a part of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsHall Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Touchline song and dance act. UTO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Andrew6666 said: Take sentiment away, nobody on here could state why he is still here? Except he's the best manager we never had..better than jos, better than bruce, better than monk....even better than our ex saviour cc in his last season. Not saying he's the man but better than the last 3 clowns we set on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglejay Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, Grez Bez said: Absolutely not but I think that's more to do with nan management than background. If your good with people they will buy into what your doing regardless of whether you won the champions League of Essex Schools Cup! 100% agree it’s predominantly man management and being able to deal with big egos. However, your man management is less likely to be questioned the better reputation/track record you have. Silly comparison I know, especially as I despise the bloke but It kind of emphasis my point. Wilder and Danny Cowley could tell the same group of players that if they drank their own pee before games they’d stand a better chance of winning, using the same language, tone etc. I genuinely think more people would question Cowley than Wilder over this. Revert back 3/4 seasons when Wilder was still at Northampton I’d hazard a guess less players would be inclined to believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Grez Bez said: How many coaching sessions of his have you been a part of? None, you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, sherlyegg said: Except he's the best manager we never had..better than jos, better than bruce, better than monk....even better than our ex saviour cc in his last season. Not saying he's the man but better than the last 3 clowns we set on. Yet still failed. Failure rewarded over and over and....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: Yet still failed. Failure rewarded over and over and....... So we should have stuck with jos then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew6666 said: None, you? How do you know he's bad at his job if you've never seen him do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Grez Bez said: How do you know he's bad at his job if you've never seen him do it? Results. How do you know he's not bad at his job after never seeing him do it? Not as if the coaching has proved fruitful is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, sherlyegg said: So we should have stuck with jos then? Jos had Bullen as coach, one got sacked one remained, even though Bruce brought in his own coaches, we still shoe horned Bullen in, why? Please don't say continuity, because that would just prove my point on failure. We have had one manager (with Bullen as coach) that was allowed to splash ALL our cash - CC. Then a random manager - Jos (with Bullen as coach) that got no cash. Then a big name (Bruce) (with Bullen as a shoe horned in coach) that got no cash but could bring in his own trusted staff he'd used for years. Now we have Monk (with Bullen as coach) who has no cash and isn't allowed to bring in his own staff. Surely you can see a common denominator, although not the only problem at the club at the moment. We are being run like a joke. Each manager gets pot luck to make us formidable. Never going to work. In an earlier post you mentioned CC being our best manager in years. Yes because he took us to the play offs, but he had ALL our money - I see that as a failure but with cash as he didn't get us to the PL. At least when the others failed they had no cash. I'm sorry but how can you say someone is the best manager we never had? Wouldn't that be Guardiola or Klopp. Edited July 21, 2020 by Andrew6666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: Jos had Bullen as coach, one got sacked one remained, even though Bruce brought in his own coaches, we still shoe horned Bullen in, why? Please don't say continuity, because that would just prove my point on failure. We have had one manager (with Bullen as coach) that was allowed to splash ALL our cash - CC. Then a random manager - Jos (with Bullen as coach) that got no cash. Then a big name (Bruce) (with Bullen as a shoe horned in coach) that got no cash but could bring in his own trusted staff he'd used for years. Now we have Monk (with Bullen as coach) who has no cash and isn't allowed to bring in his own staff. Surely you can see a common denominator, although not the only problem at the club at the moment. We are being run like a joke. Each manager gets pot luck to make us formidable. Never going to work. In an earlier post you mentioned CC being our best manager in years. Yes because he took us to the play offs, but he had ALL our money - I see that as a failure but with cash as he didn't get us to the PL. At least when the others failed they had no cash. If you are judging it like that then surely it should also be relative to others in the division. If you are basing performance on budget then Carlos had a bigger budget than the others but his budget was still outside top 6 so he performed above the relative expenditure. Others may not have had the money to spend but they did still have the basis of the squad that Carlos did well with. Yes some aged and were past their best but they didn't all become past it instantly in the couple of months leading up to Carlos' departure. Our current playing squad has declined compared to how it was under Carlos but it is not as bad as it is being made to look this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: Results. How do you know he's not bad at his job after never seeing him do it? Not as if the coaching has proved fruitful is it? I never said he was good at his job? The manager is responsible for the results on the field. Can't you be a good coach under poor managers? If you've never seen him coach, you have no idea how good or bad he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Grez Bez said: I never said he was good at his job? The manager is responsible for the results on the field. Can't you be a good coach under poor managers? If you've never seen him coach, you have no idea how good or bad he is. If you've never seen him coach, you have no idea how good or bad he is either. You seem to keep ignoring the fact that you've NEVER seen him coach, so I don't know what your basing your part of the discussion on? Stand off. Therefore I would look at results = failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: Jos had Bullen as coach, one got sacked one remained Jos' assistant was Remy Reynierse, not Bullen. Monk working a job without a proper assistant was criminal from DC, and for what it's worth, who was Bullen's assistant at the start of the season? It's not like we didn't have the funds either, considering we budgeted for the salary of Bruce and his two assistants. Add £2m compensation to the mix, and the fact Monk is on much lower wages than Bruce. What did DC expect? "Top 2"? Boggles the mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: If you've never seen him coach, you have no idea how good or bad he is either. You seem to keep ignoring the fact that you've NEVER seen him coach, so I don't know what your basing your part of the discussion on? Stand off. Therefore I would look at results = failed. I never said he was good as I would have no idea as I've never seen him coach. Same as you! You are basing it off the managers result so clearly don't know the role of a coach in a professional football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: If you are judging it like that then surely it should also be relative to others in the division. If you are basing performance on budget then Carlos had a bigger budget than the others but his budget was still outside top 6 so he performed above the relative expenditure. Others may not have had the money to spend but they did still have the basis of the squad that Carlos did well with. Yes some aged and were past their best but they didn't all become past it instantly in the couple of months leading up to Carlos' departure. Our current playing squad has declined compared to how it was under Carlos but it is not as bad as it is being made to look this year. I was basing my argument on just us, as our managers are being judged/graded but they are not on a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Grez Bez said: I never said he was good as I would have no idea as I've never seen him coach. Same as you! You are basing it off the managers result so clearly don't know the role of a coach in a professional football club. I know how to manage staff, support staff, mentor staff, manage finances, and get the correct personnel to be successful. You? Its all the same. Business or football club. I'm successful as are ALL the businesses I've helped, that's why I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: I was basing my argument on just us, as our managers are being judged/graded but they are not on a level playing field. They should surely be judged relative to how they are performing in terms of their budget and the budget of others. Of course you would expect the side Carlos had 2015-17 to be better than our current side, but our current side have been 23rd best in the division for half a season, they aren't that bad but the manager just might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said: I know how to manage staff, support staff, mentor staff, manage finances, and get the correct personnel to be successful. You? Its all the same. Business or football club. I'm successful as are ALL the businesses I've helped, that's why I know. Well I'm responsible for a P&L of c.£80M but that has nothing to do with what we were discussing. Edited July 21, 2020 by Grez Bez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: They should surely be judged relative to how they are performing in terms of their budget and the budget of others. Of course you would expect the side Carlos had 2015-17 to be better than our current side, but our current side have been 23rd best in the division for half a season, they aren't that bad but the manager just might be. That was my point. How different DC has treated each manager of ours. If they all had the same cash to spend, all had their own choice of staff, then we could judge them all the same. It seems only CC had this luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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