asteener1867 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ive knitted the new Owls shirt in wool and bought a gold plastic disc that I etched me name on wiv a penknife....gonna take a pritt stick into the ground (pretend its a Vics nasal to get past SAGS) an' stick it on me seat....cost? £4.37 bargain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl91 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 20 hours ago, handworth52 said: I wonder how many have paid into this 1867? id be surprised if its not any more than 20-30 fans. why not scrap the stupid scheme and tell a player on 25k a week your sacked maybe david jones? that would stop the need for this stupid scheme. 1 problem it aint happening , our 25 million wage bill we are stuck with for quite some time ,would take 2 years I reckon to get it below 20 million and that's if we sign nobody for 2 years .financially we are in dire straights . Probably because if you just 'sack' a player for no reason you have to pay their entire contract? So you wouldn't gain anything!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 This is what happens when modern football economics interfaces with the average fan. It's like asking a village to fund a £35 mill bypass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: This is what happens when modern football economics interfaces with the average fan. It's like asking a village to fund a £35 mill bypass. To be fair from Mr Chansiri's side he's seen that he's put up prices to the highest in history yet has achieved record breaking crowds consistently Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: To be fair from Mr Chansiri's side he's seen that he's put up prices to the highest in history yet has achieved record breaking crowds consistently And still the shortfall. The days of crowds of people funding a club are long, long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 What's this about removing the plaques? I remember, years ago, when they launched some sort of plaque scheme. That's the reason I didn't even consider it this time (despite it being a financial struggle to do so) as those plaques are nowhere to be seen all these years later. I might just take a sharpie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 48 minutes ago, Fessi's Knee said: What's this about removing the plaques? I remember, years ago, when they launched some sort of plaque scheme. That's the reason I didn't even consider it this time (despite it being a financial struggle to do so) as those plaques are nowhere to be seen all these years later. I might just take a sharpie. I alluded to this in another post - the main reason as boring and stupid as this sounds is accounting standards IF this is about getting around FFP the money coming in under this scheme has to be treated as turnover in the accounts arising in the period to 31st May 2018 (the accounting year end of the Club). All the FFP assessments use the annual accounts as the starting position so that is what we have to look at. So going back to basics when the 3 year season tickets were on sale and the money was received in what February 2016 it isn't shown as a sale at that time. Because it covers the next 3 seasons that money for accounting purposes has to be spread over 3 accounting periods so Year end 31st May 17 Year end 31st May 18 Year end 31st May 19 What you have to do in the Club 1867 situation is make sure it is set up in a way that for accounts purposes it is a sale. That is why in exchange for the money you get the plaque. Now the value you get from the plaque is no way the same as what you are paying but bear with me. If the plaque was going to be on the seat for 3 years then like the season ticket scenario above you would have to spread that income over 3 accounting periods - not so good in getting around FFP this year then. Hence the plaque has to go at the end of the season so it is seen you the supporter gets no apparent continuing benefit from the plaque for what you have paid. The accounting genius of this scheme is that what is basically a loan to the Club isn't a loan when it comes to accounts. 1) As above you are getting something, the plaque, in return. It is a sale, of sorts, that can be shown in that years account 2) there is no set repayment date for the money, there is no interest, there is no guarantee of anything 3) The promise at the end to get a 3 year season ticket or buy say 3 tickets for one season is what we technically call a contingent liability because it only crystallises on an uncertain event - the Club getting promotion to the Premier League. The accounts only have to include a contingent liability within the actual figures if it is PROBABLE the event will happen. Go back to the year end date - 31st May - you will 100% know your league status for next season by that date, even if you lose in the play off final on the 31st itself. Anyone who ever looks at the Club accounts will see there is a contingent liability already to pay Dave Allen and the Co-op if we get promoted. All you have to do is note the possibility. Hence this future liability goes no where near the accounts and is not counted for FFP purposes as a result Apologies for perhaps the most boring post on Owlstalk ever, but to get your head around why certain things that seem illogical are arising here this is pivotal. As I said yesterday I doff my cap to the person who came up with this. In my other life as an auditor I may well challenge some of the arguments here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelliesleftnut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Didn't Mr C say he had a plan or something similar for dealing with FFP ? Really hope it's not this Club 1867 gonads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Expected to sell 20,000 Don't think the club will be releasing actual sales anytime soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kelliesleftnut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, KivoOwl said: Expected to sell 20,000 Don't think the club will be releasing actual sales anytime soon... Don't give up Kivo ..... DC: this scheme is only for the fans who can afford it, we will have a other campaign later this a tweet from the fans forum back in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 hours ago, mkowl said: I alluded to this in another post - the main reason as boring and stupid as this sounds is accounting standards IF this is about getting around FFP the money coming in under this scheme has to be treated as turnover in the accounts arising in the period to 31st May 2018 (the accounting year end of the Club). All the FFP assessments use the annual accounts as the starting position so that is what we have to look at. So going back to basics when the 3 year season tickets were on sale and the money was received in what February 2016 it isn't shown as a sale at that time. Because it covers the next 3 seasons that money for accounting purposes has to be spread over 3 accounting periods so Year end 31st May 17 Year end 31st May 18 Year end 31st May 19 What you have to do in the Club 1867 situation is make sure it is set up in a way that for accounts purposes it is a sale. That is why in exchange for the money you get the plaque. Now the value you get from the plaque is no way the same as what you are paying but bear with me. If the plaque was going to be on the seat for 3 years then like the season ticket scenario above you would have to spread that income over 3 accounting periods - not so good in getting around FFP this year then. Hence the plaque has to go at the end of the season so it is seen you the supporter gets no apparent continuing benefit from the plaque for what you have paid. The accounting genius of this scheme is that what is basically a loan to the Club isn't a loan when it comes to accounts. 1) As above you are getting something, the plaque, in return. It is a sale, of sorts, that can be shown in that years account 2) there is no set repayment date for the money, there is no interest, there is no guarantee of anything 3) The promise at the end to get a 3 year season ticket or buy say 3 tickets for one season is what we technically call a contingent liability because it only crystallises on an uncertain event - the Club getting promotion to the Premier League. The accounts only have to include a contingent liability within the actual figures if it is PROBABLE the event will happen. Go back to the year end date - 31st May - you will 100% know your league status for next season by that date, even if you lose in the play off final on the 31st itself. Anyone who ever looks at the Club accounts will see there is a contingent liability already to pay Dave Allen and the Co-op if we get promoted. All you have to do is note the possibility. Hence this future liability goes no where near the accounts and is not counted for FFP purposes as a result Apologies for perhaps the most boring post on Owlstalk ever, but to get your head around why certain things that seem illogical are arising here this is pivotal. As I said yesterday I doff my cap to the person who came up with this. In my other life as an auditor I may well challenge some of the arguments here Substance over form? The argument that this would be a £2k sale of an essentially worthless brass plaque on a plastic seat for a few months rather than an unsecured loan to repaid at an undetermined future date must be at least questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, kobayashi said: Substance over form? The argument that this would be a £2k sale of an essentially worthless brass plaque on a plastic seat for a few months rather than an unsecured loan to repaid at an undetermined future date must be at least questionable. Yep certainly be considering that angle if I was the auditor. I think the good news is that so few have taken up the offer it wouldn't be material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 3 hours ago, kelliesleftnut said: Don't give up Kivo ..... DC: this scheme is only for the fans who can afford it, we will have a other campaign later this a tweet from the fans forum back in August. What another alternative to use the fans as a cash cow based on their loyalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mkowl said: Yep certainly be considering that angle if I was the auditor. I think the good news is that so few have taken up the offer it wouldn't be material "Oh what a tangled web weave when first we practice to deceive" Lets hope that the number of fans taken in by this offer/accounting sleight of hand remains immaterial and that it dies a death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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