Hirst scores a hat-trick

[vid80]

Well done young man.

[parkerowl]

Well done lad! Hopefully get a nice few quid for him when the time comes to sell.

[steelowl]

taking the point we haven't produced our own talent for whatever reason

I don't know how his father's fall out with DC's will affect George's stay here, but watching this lad develop and if we can keep him here he will probably pay for the whole setup alone.

 

I hope to see him given some 1st team time this coming season 

Edited June 2, 2017 by steelowl

[parkerowl]

15 minutes ago, steelowl said:

taking the point we haven't produced our own talent for whatever reason

I don't know how his father's fall out with DC's will affect George's stay here, but watching this lad develop and if we can keep him here he will probably pay for the whole setup alone.

 

I hope to see him given some 1st team time this coming season 

Do you think he's good enough at the moment to justify playing? instead of say... Hooper and Fletcher? I still think he needs filling out a tad before we really start using him.

[ramone]

12 hours ago, vulva said:

We've ploughed millions into the academy, and produced nothing. A hard nosed businessman would look at that and bin it off. 

 

Another question - what's the biggest fee we have received for a player who has come through the system. 

Its not as easy as 'lets spend a few million and expect a talented youngster the next day. 

 

Lets not forget that pre Dave Jones, our Academy was a complete shambles. Credit where credit is due, he and Milan were the driving force behind improving the Academy. This only started in 2013 (I think). I'd say the timeline was about right that we're just seeing a few prospects coming through. 

 

You only have to look at our neighbours and what they've recouped from their Academy. Surely, that has to be the aim (as much as it pains me to say it)

[parkerowl]

2 minutes ago, ramone said:

Its not as easy as 'lets spend a few million and expect a talented youngster the next day. 

 

Lets not forget that pre Dave Jones, our Academy was a complete shambles. Credit where credit is due, he and Milan were the driving force behind improving the Academy. This only started in 2013 (I think). I'd say the timeline was about right that we're just seeing a few prospects coming through. 

 

You only have to look at our neighbours and what they've recouped from their Academy. Surely, that has to be the aim (as much as it pains me to say it)

Yep always handy when you can sell a kid for £10m without disrupting the first team or taking away an important part of it.

[ramone]

11 hours ago, scram said:

Like i said - he's a stats lover and did the maths and wasn't happy with the return for his outlay

 

So he dropped them like a stone - not many saw it coming but one day he just said that's enough - and their academy was gone

 

There is a huge argument to say that many clubs should really be assessing whether they are getting anything tangible from running an academy

I'd argue that the academy also has a lot to do with clubs putting something back into the local community as well. Getting kids active etc. 

 

But you and Vulva are correct, i'd bet no clubs actually make a profit from their academy. Unless you're in the elite where you can get the kids in, train them, loan them and sell them without actually getting close to making a first team appearance. Fergie started that off and everyone else has followed. Look at Chelsea, they've got about 60 lads out on loan... 

[steelowl]

7 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

Do you think he's good enough at the moment to justify playing? instead of say... Hooper and Fletcher? I still think he needs filling out a tad before we really start using him.

 

no but the odd 3-0 up cameo will keep him interested  I'm keen not to lose him 

 

and other clubs seem to play  talent younger than him 

[Southie_Owl]

Got to keep hold of George

 

In two years when he's filled out more he could be our Miroslav Klose. Or Jon Shaw

 

Fine lines between the two.. 

 

 

[parkerowl]

1 minute ago, steelowl said:

 

no but the odd 3-0 up cameo will keep him interested  I'm keen not to lose him 

 

and other clubs seem to play  talent younger than him 

Ok, fair point, we aren't 3-0 up very often though are we? I see other clubs playing young lads too, maybe they're just better than him at the moment? or they're forced too through injury or suspension etc. I think it would be alot of pressure on him to deliver, just take a look at the bashing Rhodes gets and that's a seasoned pro, pressure he doesn't need at the moment IMO.

[Lee A]

7 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

Do you think he's good enough at the moment to justify playing? instead of say... Hooper and Fletcher? I still think he needs filling out a tad before we really start using him.

 

 

Probably the case,  he simply needs to play some senior football, whether that's here ( I assume he'll be quite heavily involved with the squad for pre-season ) or on loan somewhere, before we can judge.

 

At the moment, whilst he's clearly doing very well, he's playing against other kids, whereas we would be asking him to jump from that, to facing players of the standard and stature of Loovens and Lees,  it's impossible to judge whether he's ready for what we all hope will be a team competing for top 2 in the championship, based on what he's been doing so far.

 

He'll need to be introduced steadily if he stays here ( league cup game, few cameos here and there ) which we are in a position to do,  and it will probably involve more patience than most of us have got, but once we've had a look at him playing senior football we'll have a much better idea.

 

Personally I want to see him out on loan and playing regularly before long.

 

 

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

13 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

Do you think he's good enough at the moment to justify playing? instead of say... Hooper and Fletcher? I still think he needs filling out a tad before we really start using him.

Maybe not Hooper and Fletcher or Rhodes. But a damn better backup than a striker who's last goal for us was 16 months ago

[parkerowl]

2 minutes ago, Lee A said:

 

 

Probably the case,  he simply needs to play some senior football, whether that's here ( I assume he'll be quite heavily involved with the squad for pre-season ) or on loan somewhere, before we can judge.

 

At the moment, whilst he's clearly doing very well, he's playing against other kids, whereas we would be asking him to jump from that, to facing players of the standard and stature of Loovens and Lees,  it's impossible to judge whether he's ready for what we all hope will be a team competing for top 2 in the championship, based on what he's been doing so far.

 

He'll need to be introduced steadily if he stays here ( league cup game, few cameos here and there ) which we are in a position to do,  and it will probably involve more patience than most of us have got, but once we've had a look at him playing senior football we'll have a much better idea.

 

Personally I want to see him out on loan and playing regularly before long.

 

 

Got to admit, i've only seen him play once, that was a friendly at Chezzy last season. He did alright but just looked abit like a little boy joining in with the adults. Like you say if he does stay he really needs testing on loan even if it's conference level.

 

If he's anywhere near good enough for us he'd look way too good for the team he was on loan too.

[ramone]

4 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

Maybe not Hooper and Fletcher or Rhodes. But a damn better backup than a striker who's last goal for us was 16 months ago

Rhodes

Hooper

Forestieri

Winnall

Fletcher

Joao

Nuhiu

 

Even if you sack off the bottom 2 he wouldn't get a look in. Nor would I expect him to. A loan move for the season is the best thing for his development at the minute. And lets be honest, if he does and goes, then fine. Thats life. But he shouldn't be anywhere near Hillsborough next year. 

[parkerowl]

5 minutes ago, ramone said:

Rhodes

Hooper

Forestieri

Winnall

Fletcher

Joao

Nuhiu

 

Even if you sack off the bottom 2 he wouldn't get a look in. Nor would I expect him to. A loan move for the season is the best thing for his development at the minute. And lets be honest, if he does and goes, then fine. Thats life. But he shouldn't be anywhere near Hillsborough next year. 

I tend to agree with the argument that was his last name not Hirst, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

7 minutes ago, ramone said:

Rhodes

Hooper

Forestieri

Winnall

Fletcher

Joao

Nuhiu

 

Even if you sack off the bottom 2 he wouldn't get a look in. Nor would I expect him to. A loan move for the season is the best thing for his development at the minute. And lets be honest, if he does and goes, then fine. Thats life. But he shouldn't be anywhere near Hillsborough next year. 

 

Did Nuhiu get a place this season? 

[ramone]

Just now, parkerowl said:

I tend to agree with the argument that was his last name not Hirst, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Exactly. 

 

I've only seen him play once. That was the recent game against Hull. Even there, all you could here was, 'GI IT HIRTSY' 'GO ON THEN HIRSTY'

 

A tad unfair on the young lad. Huge expectations on his shoulders already just because of his last name.

 

[ramone]

1 minute ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

Did Nuhiu get a place this season? 

Dunno pal, I wasn't his letting agent this year... 

[steelowl]

2 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

I tend to agree with the argument that was his last name not Hirst, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

I dont agree mate  this lad has scored goals at every junior level and for his country too 

never said he should start just the occasional cameo or league cup match 

[AwokenGiant]

10 hours ago, scram said:

It's a moot point

 

At that age the coaches tend to be the least experienced and less "well traveled"

 

There are also many negatives - chiefly the attrition rate is huge - many, many kids fall by the wayside at those ages

 

Not to mention the problems of early specialisation, social isolation and growth/maturation playing tricks

 

Then there's the issue that it's virtually impossible to predict which players will go on to not only be special - but even those who may get a career at any level

 

I realise it can never happen because the arms race undertaken by the big academies to hoover up all the best players - at any age

 

They don't care about the fall out of the psyche of broken hearts and dreams

 

Excellent and accurate post - it's just a conveyor belt which forks off to a 'big bin' with limited support or to the 'limelight' where everyone wants a piece of you. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by AwokenGiant