Jim Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) It seems to me that the problems we are currently experiencing at the moment aren't too disimilar to the problems that were in existence this time last year. Like last year we find ourselves in a relegation battle and it would appear like last year there is a general concensus both inside and outside the club that there is going to be extensive changes in personnel come the Summer. Also like last season we've had a managerial change during the campaign and that seems to have brought it's upheavals and concerns to the current squad of players as you would expect. Now in the run-in last season the players in my opinion went through the motions. There was no drive, no desire to succeed, no nothing and what we got in the end was relegation. I believe one of the fundamental reasons for this was a lot of players were expecting to move on and perhaps quite understandably the players who would find themselves out of contract in the summer probably didn't want to run through the proverbial brick wall and pick up an injury which would make getting further employment in the immediate future difficult. Some would say quite rightly they should be showing professional pride and fighting for at least a possible long term future at S6? Whatever the reasons we went down and a lot of players subsequently moved on. In my opinion we are looking at exactly the same situation now. Players are aware there are going to be changes and this unlike last season has been hinted at extensively in public. The current manager is criticising the players in public week in, week out and screaming at them before, during and after matches and we are seeing the same sort of lifeless performances that we were witnessing this time last year. A difference between now and then is that not as many players find themselves out of contract in the summer. Maybe some have been told already that one way or another they'll be out of the door come the close season? Now if any of these suggestions are true then surely you're going to continue to see these type of insipid performances because the players and Tuesday Night's game brought this home to me are not going to put themselves on the line for a Manager who's current man-management skills and tactics seem to inspire negativity and aggravation rather than positivity and harmony. There is no spark amongst the fan base at the moment particularly the ones that attend Hillsborough regularly. This is understandable because of the absolute sh!t that has been endured over the last 15 years. Relegation battles have ensued in at least 10 of the last 15 seasons. Add to this the constant financial black cloud that has hovered over us during this period and almost enveloped us earlier in the season then it's no surprise the fans have got sick and tired of it all. Despite all this the onus is always on the fans to shell out £300 or more on ST's and you can't really argue if more and more fans turn around and tell the club to shove it. The only reason I can think of to stick with it apart from the obvious love for the club that every Wednesday Fan has is Milan Mandaric. He saved the club from oblivion when others didn't. I'm sure he has the same drive and passion to succeed as everyone of us. I just feel that he has a big decision to make if we are to avoid relegation to the old Fourth Division for the first time in our History. He either sacks or if he genuinely believes that long term Megson is the man to change our fortunes around then he has to get used to the idea of building again in League 2 and copping a load of frustration from Owls Fans particularly in the short term. I hope I'm wrong but this season has de ja vous written all over it and I can't see the players pulling it out of the fire under our current flame haired manager. Edited March 31, 2011 by Great Big Galaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wildman1867 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 fully agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Not that whoever is manager should get in the way of the players turning in professional performances. That is what they get paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If there are similarities with last season, and I think most of us agree, there appear to be, then why make the same mistakes again? Last season there were barely a dozen players actually out of contract, and most of those were not first team regulars. Yet all we read on here was, wait til we get to the end of the season we can get rid of the deadwood. All the talk of a mass clear out eventually got to the players because it was allowed to appear this way by the manager and the then populist chairman, Lee Stafford. In reality only those out of contract left anyway, hardly weakening the team. OK Grant followed later for economic reasons, though as I recall, this was a shock as the chairman had said, no one would be sold. Do you see what I'm getting at? A situation that should have been relatively harmless with a handful of mainly injury prone players running out of contract was compounded by the club and management, almost happy to imply that, mainly to appease the fans, there was indeed going to be some mass clear out. The result was devastating. Forward on 12 months and what do we see? Fans constantly berating the players demanding a further clear out at the end of the season Players appearing to believe they will be on there way out of the club, moral plummeting and another downward spiral gathering pace. So what happens, do we as a club learn from the mistakes of the previous year? Do we f*ck, its exactly the same scenario, Megson courting the fans, implying another mass clear out, the chairman going public saying can get rid of any players he likes WTF, its absurd, again we have no more than half a dozen players out of contract, some again who aren't regulars. Instead this climate has been created where all the players feel they will be bombed out regardless. Any decent manager with an ounce of man management skills, would have quickly isolated those half dozen players who he perceived to be disruptive, reassured the remaining players that they were still very much part of his plans He could then have used the loan system to cover any disruption to his first team squad. Sadly its not in Gary Megsons character to think rationally as he only has one trick in the box. I am surprised at Milan though, I would have thought that he would have known better Unfortunately those decisions will at best cost our chairman, a lot more money than he bargained for All so unnecessary really and thats what really frustrates me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 i think theres an argument that any player out of contract in the summer should either be re-signed or sold in january. it cant do any good to have players unsure of their future on our books, likewise i think its obvious that when some players lose the motivation to play, it does have massive repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If there are similarities with last season, and I think most of us agree, there appear to be, then why make the same mistakes again? Are you saying that Megson & Irvines pedigree, back room staff and managerial history are analogous? You cannot class them as similar. Completely spurious and simplistic argument. Ridiculous IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Are you saying that Megson & Irvines pedigree, back room staff and managerial history are analogous? You cannot class them as similar. Completely spurious and simplistic argument. Ridiculous IMO. I'm getting sick of banging this drum over and over again but our recent horrific run began WAY before Megson arrived, when there was absolutely no suggestion of a clear-out, training ground punch-ups or screaming at anyone for leaving water bottles on the touchline. It is much too simplistic to put all the blame onto him, Darren Potter, THE RADIATOR, booing supporters, Lee Strafford or any other single cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If the scenario is a similar one, the claim that maybe players have been demotivated by talk of a clear out, then yes the response of chairman and manager exactly mirrors the response of Irvine and Strafford last season On both occasions a relatively harmless situation, a handful of players out of contract, has been mishandled in a way that appears to have affected team moral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhollywood Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 So what happens, do we as a club learn from the mistakes of the previous year? Do we f*ck, its exactly the same scenario. The fact that this year we have a chairman who has money and is willing to spend it makes it a hugely different scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If the scenario is a similar one, the claim that maybe players have been demotivated by talk of a clear out, then yes the response of chairman and manager exactly mirrors the response of Irvine and Strafford last season On both occasions a relatively harmless situation, a handful of players out of contract, has been mishandled in a way that appears to have affected team moral Based on this flawed rationale you suggest someone with the stature and pedigree of Megson and his back room staff should be sacked after 8 weeks of managing this bunch of wasters? You claim that because Irvine was crap (and he was given time) Megson should now go. Is this supposed to be based on logic? Incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If the scenario is a similar one, the claim that maybe players have been demotivated by talk of a clear out, then yes the response of chairman and manager exactly mirrors the response of Irvine and Strafford last season On both occasions a relatively harmless situation, a handful of players out of contract, has been mishandled in a way that appears to have affected team moral But this lousy run of results started WAY before any such excuse is credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think after 23 games I had a good indication that Irvine was not the man for Sheffield Wednesay, after a similar run of games I think I'll have a pretty good idea of whether or not Megson is the man So Reading, can I ask you this, at what point did you think Irvine may not have been the man, and how long would you have given him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes DJ it did though I was only commenting on the OP and the key words in my piece were, IF and APPEARS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think after 23 games I had a good indication that Irvine was not the man for Sheffield Wednesay, after a similar run of games I think I'll have a pretty good idea of whether or not Megson is the man So Reading, can I ask you this, at what point did you think Irvine may not have been the man, and how long would you have given him? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I would like to say when he was appointed, but that would be a lie. During the latter half of last season I was starting to fear the worst. Post Bristol City, and more so post Coventry away. I knew definately post the Cardiff/Crystal Palace games that he was a false prophet and, if it would have been possible, I would have liked the Club to have got shut at the end of the season. But pragmatically, the Club could not afford to terminate his contract. We were stuck with him. His pedigree (with hindsight) did not suggest otherwise. I personally think Megson has a much, much, better and complete C.V than Irvine will ever have. The infrastructure he put in at Bolton and WBA have served them well, I would suggest. Name someone with a better 'evidential' footballing pedigree that we could realistically attract? You are currently focusing on the current on field woes. I think we have to look more long term than that. As painful as our current plight is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I am perhaps focussing on the on field matters, mainly because in thr short term, they feel more pressing.IHinsight played no part in making my mind up over Irvine, as from gay one I was never convinced Similarly with Megson, I've voiced my fears and concerns since the minute he walked through the door and it is panning out exactly how I said it would. Whether I care for Megson or not is irrelevant, I just don't think he is the right man for Sheffield Wednesday, fine, most think he is. Will he prove me wrong? Well not so far he hasn't, and if proving me wrong meant Sheffield Wednesday were successful, nothing would make me happier. If the infastructure he has set up at both Bolton and West Brom is as good as you say it is, maybe we can be more hopeful However I note that both of those teams are hardly awash with home produced talent and that really must be priority number one for a club with our catchment area I hope he comes good though I fear the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I hope he comes good though I fear the worst Well unfortunately, there are no guarentees. I have no more foresight than you do and backing the right candidate is not a science. You can only look at their past achievements and hope that they can be emulated at your respective Club. Megson does and did fit the bill notwithstanding his poor early showing. TBH I would have appointed Warnock last season, especially after his 'come and get me speech' post the Palace cup defeat. If Warnock had been appointed then we would still have been in the Championship (but the serendipity is that we would not have got MM). I bet United fans rue the day they drove him out of the Club. Again, if I had been a Leeds fan then I would have hoped that I would have stuck by Clough. They got shut after 44 days and he went onto to much better things at Forest. For me, Megson is our chance to get back to the big time (long term). We will not get a better oppourtunity in the short term IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgmetcalf Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Last year? Try the last 10 people coming and going is only part of the problem - the lesser part. The biggest problem for the last 10 or years is the midfield. Players are not being taught how to pass, look for players (pass the ball without looking where it's going), how to move into space, how to close down, how to get to the ball first, how to get infront of markers. We make the same mistakes match after match and season after season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK6Owl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm going to have my twopenneth in this debate. Whilst I fully understand everyones frustrations I would like to make the point that for 2 or 3 yeRS WE HAVEN'T USED THE RESERVES to develop/rehabilitate/punish players. In days gone by the reseres were a mixture of up and coming players and those who had aspirations to get back in the 1st team. Why o why hae we not used our reserve team properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm going to have my twopenneth in this debate. Whilst I fully understand everyones frustrations I would like to make the point that for 2 or 3 yeRS WE HAVEN'T USED THE RESERVES to develop/rehabilitate/punish players. In days gone by the reseres were a mixture of up and coming players and those who had aspirations to get back in the 1st team. Why o why hae we not used our reserve team properly cause our superstars won't entertain the reserves mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK6Owl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 won't entertain the reserves! WTF.......when I go to work I do as I'm told whether I lke it or not.......if they dont play where their picked to play then........breach of contract so flip off. I'd rather see them giving bugger all in the reseerves than anywhere near the 1st X1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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