SiJ Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We won't get into the play offs with bottom Irvine in charge. Think we will fall short. But it is ok because our new stated aim - according to some OT posters - is to build a team for the future, not promotion. :Dark Wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We won't get into the play offs with bottom Irvine in charge. Think we will fall short. But it is ok because our new stated aim - according to some OT posters - is to build a team for the future, not promotion. :Dark Wacko: I've claimed a number of times recently that posters have been reaching a conclusion and then tailoring the evidence to fit it. And this is one of the things I mean. What is deemed an acceptable level of performance has kept shifting downwards among some of them in accordance with how badly we are doing. It begs the question of just how low we need to sink before they break their programming and say it's not good enough. I also wonder how much influence this need to appear supportive and positive is in this too. This is not meant to be a criticism necessarily, although no doubt some will assume it to be one. It is a reflection that multiple personality types will view the same situation in different ways and there is little point trying to change that. But in this case, I think those of a more cynical disposition have more evidence on their side than those trying to convince themselves Irvine is doing an acceptable job. And whilst I'm sure there's at least one poster out there who thinks I am relentlessly negative and therefore not objective, perhaps he should consider how much I defended Paul Sturrock and Brian Laws before they were dismissed? I think this time the situation is rather different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We just need time for things to gel... He has now signed 13 players and will just need a few months to get things to 'click'...! At what point will it be his team, his tactics, his responsibility...? This next season...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Van Allen Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Fixtures over the next couple of months should see us into or close to the top two places. From then on we would have to continue to perform, which I doubt. I do think things will get better than they have been but I can't see past a playoff place. 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We won't get into the play offs with bottom Irvine in charge. Think we will fall short. But it is ok because our new stated aim - according to some OT posters - is to build a team for the future, not promotion. :Dark Wacko: If you mean my post above, that's not what I meant. They are needed for this season's promotion hopes too, otherwise they wouldn't be making such drastic changes within 1 transfer window. In the summer most of the players we've signed would've been available for free I think. The point I was trying to make was they aren't just for this season, as in spending silly money on experienced players for the short term. The poster I was replying to seems to think not going up means these transfers are a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattitheowl Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've said 5th but I can't see it being the same outcome as last time. We just can't figure out the better teams (which is a joke with all the DVD's we watch) so I can see it being 5th and no promotion. Just not bothered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 But if around half of £5m is being paid to players not performing/not good enough, then that budget is irrelevant to a certain extent anyway. What? If half the budget is being wasted on players not performing/not good enough, it is being wasted. Then you have to ask why the players are not performing and are not good enough... Either the manager can't get the full potential out of them, or the manager brought players in who weren't good enough. I don't think not going up this season would prove a waste of resources either. Milan has clearly given Irvine the brief of signing players for future as well as the short term. We're investing in the team for years to come, not just trying to buy promotion. If we don't go up this season, the wages spent this season have given us no return this season. As for the future, what evidence have we seen of Irvine's ability to improve players? I've seen more evidence of him taking a team which finished mid-table in the Championship one season, down to League 1. Then after improving that team with experienced Championship and Premiership players being unable to get consistently good enough results in League 1. Laws kept us in the Championship with Sean McAllister, Tommy Spurr, Luke Boden, Nathan Modest, Mark Beevers all making regular appearances. How can it be acceptable for Irvine to keep us in League 1 with a mix of the same and far superior players? Lets not even bother comparing the League 1 Sturrock squad to the present League 1 squad, it would be embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willyowl Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 5th and a wasted trip to Wembley beaten by Bournemouth in PO final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If you mean my post above, that's not what I meant. They are needed for this season's promotion hopes too, otherwise they wouldn't be making such drastic changes within 1 transfer window. In the summer most of the players we've signed would've been available for free I think. The point I was trying to make was they aren't just for this season, as in spending silly money on experienced players for the short term. The poster I was replying to seems to think not going up means these transfers are a waste of money. Its all about you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) What? If half the budget is being wasted on players not performing/not good enough, it is being wasted. Then you have to ask why the players are not performing and are not good enough... Either the manager can't get the full potential out of them, or the manager brought players in who weren't good enough. When I say half the players in the squad, I'm talking about the ones who came down with us, barring maybe Miller, Buxton and JJ on one of his good days. The same players, have been inconsistent, mainly terrible under 2 managers now. The season before was great, what changed? I don't know, a couple of key players leaving, Grey feeling his age, the issue with Wood, the combo of Purse & Beevers not being good enough, all of the above, something else???? But then again the season before that some of them were part of the team that finished just 3 points off relegation. Were they ever consistently good? IMHO, no. If we don't go up this season, the wages spent this season have given us no return this season. That's a simple way of looking at it, if you forget what football is all about. Not every team wins or achieves somthing every season, in fact the majority of teams don't. So are they all a waste of wages? Mind you nobody deserves thousands for kicking a ball about so maybe you're right. As for the future, what evidence have we seen of Irvine's ability to improve players? I've seen more evidence of him taking a team which finished mid-table in the Championship one season, down to League 1. Then after improving that team with experienced Championship and Premiership players being unable to get consistently good enough results in League 1. Laws kept us in the Championship with Sean McAllister, Tommy Spurr, Luke Boden, Nathan Modest, Mark Beevers all making regular appearances. How can it be acceptable for Irvine to keep us in League 1 with a mix of the same and far superior players? Lets not even bother comparing the League 1 Sturrock squad to the present League 1 squad, it would be embarrassing. Like I said above the same players also scraped survival the year before the 12th place finish. Edited January 17, 2011 by Just_Donny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 That's a simple way of looking at it, if you forget what football is all about. Not every team wins or achieves somthing every season, in fact the majority of teams don't. So are they all a waste of wages? Mind you nobody deserves thousands for kicking a ball about so maybe you're right. It all depends on the context of the individual teams doesn't it? You say not every team achieves something, however a lot of teams achieve something by simply avoiding relegation. Look at Blackpool for example - they will be over the moon with 'not achieving anything' because simply avoiding relegation is in itself a phenomenal achievement for a small club, tiny wage budget, punching way above it's weight. Manchester United however, would not, and should not, be happy with the same achievement...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) It's weird that now there is less pressure to get promoted this year. Following relegation and the state of the club's finances we really did need promotion this season to survive. Now we have the "luxury" of contemplating building for the long-term. A bit bizarre really considering how we started this campaign........... After a lot of thought and continuous viewing of the raging debate about AI and what happens next I have gone for 2nd. Edited January 18, 2011 by sonofbert2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I've just watched the 2nd half of the Charlton match on Player. What a player THE RADIATOR is. He is flipping IMMENSE! His tackle on Wagstaff was amazing, lets just say I'm glad I was sat watching in my bed room with my wet-wipes within reach... It was like having an extra midfielder at times. Good assist too from a set piece which was clearly straight from the training ground. Just like the 2nd half at Bristol Rovers, his pace allowed our defence to play higher up the pitch and we looked so dangerous. Without the signings we would've got beaten, with the signings we very nearly came back from a shocking start and could've won. We just need the players to do it from the off. If we can find this consistancy and take points from the teams around us, I think we'll get automatic promotion. If we carry on like we are we'll pick up enough points from the lesser teams to finish in the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owl30 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Second, Wednesday will go on a right run now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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