HarrowbyOwl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, F. Spiksley said: Implent an independent regulatory body to the domestic football leagues and just see how much litigation will occur. If one sport is deemed to require an "independent" regulatory body and others not, then guarantee the collective influences within that sport will close ranks and press all the legal buttons that they have available to them and challenge all measures that are drawn up. It will be a mud-slinging bonanza. Except that the FA, EFL and EPL (albeit with reservations) have welcomed it. One person likely to be looking to challenge the measures is closer to home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, F. Spiksley said: You really do not understand cynicism. Is that what you are saying? I think you are being blindsided by a "think piece" that is doing the rounds. Any regulatory body in football, independent or otherwise, is likely, in my opinion, to be ineffective. Money talks. Given the performance of some of the utility regulators scepticism is of course understandable but that's not the same as cynicism towards regulation in general. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 12 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Except that the FA, EFL and EPL (albeit with reservations) have welcomed it. One person likely to be looking to challenge the measures is closer to home The timing of the government paper (written by a Conservative administration) isn't too far off being a reaction to, and based on, the timing of the initial ESL proposals way back in 2021. Don't think for one minute that a Conservative administration gives much thought to the UKs football community. It is a political piece of draft proposals, designed to try and convey the notion that Sunak et al actually give a fig, they don't. Behind the scenes there are huge amounts of financial implications that the government's draft proposals don't even touch upon. It is simply another piece of draft government proposals that will be kicked into the long grass due to our antiquated elitist system of election cycles and Parliamentary structure. The next government, likely Labour based on current opinion polls, will be arms length on this and would undertake their own approach to regulatory input. There is also the fact that the draft proposals are a rehash of all the previous ideas bandied about. With many glossy rewordings of existing FA, UEFA, and FIFA regulations - none of which have any teeth, as we know. So, on balance, it is ok to have a healthy degree of cynicism around this - especially when drafted as a knee jerk reaction to topical issues by one of the most incompetent governments in our modern history. For what it is worth, I do think football ownership needs regulation, but any regulation needs to be drawn up by a cross-party group and be politically neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, F. Spiksley said: For what it is worth, I do think football ownership needs regulation, but any regulation needs to be drawn up by a cross-party group and be politically neutral. The proposals emerged from the fan-led review overseen by Tracy Crouch. Yes, she's a conservative but she was also a player, has her FA coaching badges and coaches a women's team. The proposals in the white paper have the support of : The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Football (chaired by our own season ticket holder Clive Betts MP) The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Football Supporters (54 members) The Football Supporters Association Fair Game Our Beautiful Game The Labour front bench is fully committed to taking the Football Regulation Bill forward, even if it fails to get passed before the election. They are even likely to give the regulator more teeth than in its current form. But the professional nihilists within our fan base are happy to sit sniping on the sidelines, spreading paralysing cynicism. "Lets do nothing because everything others are trying to do is pointless and won't achieve anything" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftpeg Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 42 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: The proposals emerged from the fan-led review overseen by Tracy Crouch. Yes, she's a conservative but she was also a player, has her FA coaching badges and coaches a women's team. The proposals in the white paper have the support of : The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Football (chaired by our own season ticket holder Clive Betts MP) The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Football Supporters (54 members) The Football Supporters Association Fair Game Our Beautiful Game The Labour front bench is fully committed to taking the Football Regulation Bill forward, even if it fails to get passed before the election. They are even likely to give the regulator more teeth than in its current form. But the professional nihilists within our fan base are happy to sit sniping on the sidelines, spreading paralysing cynicism. "Lets do nothing because everything others are trying to do is pointless and won't achieve anything" Professional cynic here. Do I want tighter regulation in football yes, do I think this one will be the solution the governance problem in football, no, but thats more due to my mistrust of the political motivations for it. Is it better than nothing, yes, its a start. I am just not holding my breath for it actually doing anything to help move the needle on our situation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 8 minutes ago, leftpeg said: Professional cynic here. Do I want tighter regulation in football yes, do I think this one will be the solution the governance problem in football, no, but thats more due to my mistrust of the political motivations for it. Is it better than nothing, yes, its a start. I am just not holding my breath for it actually doing anything to help move the needle on our situation. Similar stance to my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 58 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: The proposals emerged from the fan-led review overseen by Tracy Crouch. Yes, she's a conservative but she was also a player, has her FA coaching badges and coaches a women's team. The proposals in the white paper have the support of : The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Football (chaired by our own season ticket holder Clive Betts MP) The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Football Supporters (54 members) The Football Supporters Association Fair Game Our Beautiful Game The Labour front bench is fully committed to taking the Football Regulation Bill forward, even if it fails to get passed before the election. They are even likely to give the regulator more teeth than in its current form. But the professional nihilists within our fan base are happy to sit sniping on the sidelines, spreading paralysing cynicism. "Lets do nothing because everything others are trying to do is pointless and won't achieve anything" Politics is mostly a facade, as is this piece of draft legislation. Have governments since 2010 achieved any social care funding solutions yet, or are they still sitting on volumes of draft proposals? Make no mistake, this football regulation proposal is a political show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 35 minutes ago, F. Spiksley said: Politics is mostly a facade, as is this piece of draft legislation. Have governments since 2010 achieved any social care funding solutions yet, or are they still sitting on volumes of draft proposals? Make no mistake, this football regulation proposal is a political show. Yep, don't know why we bother with democracy, parliaments, legislation, laws, trying to improve things or any of that malarkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umeeksk Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 35 minutes ago, F. Spiksley said: Politics is mostly a facade, as is this piece of draft legislation. Have governments since 2010 achieved any social care funding solutions yet, or are they still sitting on volumes of draft proposals? Make no mistake, this football regulation proposal is a political show. Comparing it to social care is a bit weird tbh. That's a thorny issue caused by huge demographic changes where there are no easy solutions and even fewer cheap ones. It's a sector that doesn't have enough money. And it's an issue where the Conservative Party doesn't even agree with itself. Football regulation is an issue with a solution that pays for itself and has universal cross-party support in a sector that arguably has too much money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 27 minutes ago, Umeeksk said: Comparing it to social care is a bit weird tbh. That's a thorny issue caused by huge demographic changes where there are no easy solutions and even fewer cheap ones. It's a sector that doesn't have enough money. And it's an issue where the Conservative Party doesn't even agree with itself. Football regulation is an issue with a solution that pays for itself and has universal cross-party support in a sector that arguably has too much money. I get that, but I was clumsily trying to convey the point about draft papers getting knocked about with each 4/5 year government cycle. Politics always suits its own needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, F. Spiksley said: I get that, but I was clumsily trying to convey the point about draft papers getting knocked about with each 4/5 year government cycle. Politics always suits its own needs. What we have here is a classic social media framing. Someone with a general opinion - you - and someone who has detailed knowledge @HarrowbyOwl. Time to reconsider perhaps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 21 hours ago, F. Spiksley said: Weve got Ofcom then there's Ofsted. Football will end up with "Ofbollocks"! Or Ofballs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoofit Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 I’m definitely in the optimistic camp with this one. The present system is well & truly broken. Not only does our plight & that of Reading demonstrate that but so does the farcical delay in dealing with of all the charges brought against Man City, who have a strong chance of winning the EPL yet again in the meantime. In the ongoing absence of any demonstrable ability by the FA, EPL & EFL to come up with a fair & sustainable solution to football’s problems the introduction of an independent regulator seems a positive & very necessary step. If the lobby within the game & apathy amongst the football supporting public end up persuading government to ditch it as a bad idea a tremendous opportunity to change things for the better will be lost. Surely worth giving it a real good go & seeing where that takes us - is there really anything to lose? PS nothing wrong with scepticism - nor with those who have reservations or who see flaws in the current proposals dropping a line to their local MP requesting they push for them to be strengthened 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoofit Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-12/sunak-pushes-to-create-football-regulator-after-club-talks-fail?srnd=homepage-europe&embedded-checkout=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 9 hours ago, Nero said: What we have here is a classic social media framing. Someone with a general opinion - you - and someone who has detailed knowledge @HarrowbyOwl. Time to reconsider perhaps. Not yet. I'll remain cynical. Especially with the money that's awash in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 18 hours ago, HarrowbyOwl said: I really don't understand the kind of ignorant, cynical, nihilistic mindset of some folk on here See above ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlinexile Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Cynicism makes people feel Very Clever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftpeg Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 26 minutes ago, owlinexile said: Cynicism makes people feel Very Clever. Not really, I wish I could be optimistic, but as they say, inside every pessimist is a disappointed optimist. For what its worth, I hope I am wrong, I hope this one has teeth and actually shakes the tree REALLY hard with the English game, brings in much tighter controls over who owns clubs, how they are funded and the level of Debt that can be "owed" to the "owner" so tired of seeing people come into football clubs, making it rain money everywhere only for them to then take it all back out of the game. I am just jaded by the way the world seems to be, but if I am wrong I will be very happy. Edited March 13 by leftpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 hours ago, leftpeg said: I am just not holding my breath for it actually doing anything to help move the needle on our situation. The Regulator will have powers to monitor and enforce compliance with financial regulations, corporate governance, fan engagement and club ownership - all areas where our club has known problems. The Regulator will set 'bespoke' license conditions on each club, depending on how well they are run, how robust their business model is and how risky they are perceived to be. Well run clubs will receive light touch regulation. Poorly run clubs will in effect be placed under special measures. In the governement's case for change SWFC ticks just about every box for what a badly run club looks like. There's little doubt that the club will be in the Regulator's cross-hairs. The Regulator will also assess evidence from fan representatives on how the club’s framework works in practice. Plenty there to move the needle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 23 hours ago, owlinexile said: Cynicism makes people feel Very Clever. Not really. Not one "cynical" leaning comment has the poster crowing about how clever they are. There's a few posts implying that the cynics are not well read or versed in the developments, great stuff and well done for engaging. Obviously cynics clearly don't know a single thing. IMHO the regulator will be toothless, it will grind a political axe, it will not treat each club in the same way, it will fudge approaches towards inspection and review, it will discriminate based on applying "light touch" and "special measures", it will antagonise potential investment in the game, certainly it will deter investment in lower league clubs, it won't legally be in a position to tell the Premier League what to do with its income, especially how to filter some if it down to lower league clubs. There will be endless appeals and litigation concerning decisions and sanctions made after reviews. It won't perform well or have the resources to fully implement the regulations. It will be a bureaucratic nightmare. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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